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George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

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Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#571

Post by kbenson »

forgetsusername wrote: post #426
kbenson wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one respect, the gaffe is insignificant to current events. In another, it's vastly more important, because while small it erodes the underpinnings of the system by which we actually disseminate information. It's like having to choose between being upset about the person that mugged you for $500 on the street, or the bank that surreptitiously added 0.05% APR or the loan you just got for your house. One feels more i…

A new trend ? You think Trump is inventing Whitehouse lies, right before our eyes? Politicians have a looooong history of lying, big lies that get peole killed ("Iraq WMDs are a slam dunk!") . Where have you been?

I choose my words carefully. I even emphasized specific words to attempt to make my point more clear. Then you ignored all that.

I wasn't trying to imply that the White House could be trusted in all things, but that there was some level of truth you could probably assume, especially about things that were already known or weren't worth lying about. What we have now is an example of disputing obvious facts, and over something inconsequential, as issues the White House responds to about go. This is clearly different than what we could expect before, even if we couldn't always expect for an entirely honest answer before.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#572

Post by kbenson »

koolba wrote: post #552
flippyhead wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think you can since it's entirely possible Trump will simply declare he never backtracked and that he still has doubts or evidence Obama wasn't legitimate. He's repeatedly denied saying things _he is on video or twitter_ saying. He can simply make up any facts whenever he wants because no matter the evidence to the contrary, what he says is true simply because he's said it.

> No, I don't think you can since it's entirely possible Trump will simply declare he never backtracked and that he still has doubts or evidence Obama wasn't legitimate. He's repeatedly denied saying things _he is on video or twitter_ saying. He can simply make up any facts whenever he wants because no matter the evidence to the contrary, what he says is true simply because he's said it. President Obama is on video,…

All politicians lie, what's seemingly different about Trump is the scope and frequency of those lies, and his refusal to admit he even said them given evidence.

Just the refusal to admit them would be bad enough, but since he's gotten away with it just about every time, it shows a worrying trend of there being no accountability. Combined with the frequency, the problem is just multiplied.

I find a politician that can't seem to be held accountable for his actions and that trades on this for more political power very troubling.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#573

Post by pizzetta »

binaryabyss wrote: post #526
applecore wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A collectivist state has not become the dominating power, but wealthy individuals and corporations have, although with similar results... Seriously? The current state of affairs is nothing compared to the socialist/communist nightmares of the twentieth century. It's not even close.

At least communist states didn't destroy the world through overconsumption.

But they did engage in grand designs (like the Aral water diversion project, and more recently the three gorges dam project) and lax environmental concerns. So it's not clear to me that they were "better" however they were perhaps worse because ideology dictated what they did moreso than some other considerations.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#574

Post by [deleted] »

loafa wrote: post #178
oculusthrift wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I guess to you breaking the Foreign Emoluments Clause in the Constitution is nothing. And its funny you say that when that is exactly why they impeached Clinton.

The argument that Trump is breaking the emoluments clause by (for instance) having foreign governments paying market rents as tenants in his building is ridiculously thin. Here's the real trouble with these ridiculously exaggerated criticisms of everything Trump: there's nowhere to go from here. By the time Trump actually does something bad, everyone will be totally immune to the constant wailing, it will be impossib…

[deleted]

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#575

Post by maw »

binaryabyss wrote: post #526
applecore wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A collectivist state has not become the dominating power, but wealthy individuals and corporations have, although with similar results... Seriously? The current state of affairs is nothing compared to the socialist/communist nightmares of the twentieth century. It's not even close.

At least communist states didn't destroy the world through overconsumption.

No, but their environmental record hasn't been great, either. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea for one particularly spectacular example.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#576

Post by mattnewton »

antisthenes wrote: post #568
mattnewton wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we are arguing that it's not relevant. Men are treated differently in our society, dicks have a different connotation, etc. This is a great example of how simple metaphors strip important nuance.

Yes, applying double standards when it suits your narrative, and arguing for equality when it doesn't is another example of why liberals lost. Apparently the fly-over country is at least smart enough to notice the blatant hypocrisy, so props to them for that.

I am unsure what your argument is here. The liberal position here is, in a nutshell, that women's rights are treated poorly and should not be. It's a real stretch to say that means they should be treated as if they were men wearing dick hats because they think men are equal.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#577

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

vedranm wrote: post #307
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trumps protectionism is right out of the Ayn Rand villains handbook.

This is simply untrue. Ayn Rand doesn't speak about international free trade in Atlas Shrugged, as the rest of the developed world in her story turns into People's States. She did support international free trade, but not "free trade" of TPP and TTIP. What remains to be seen is whether the domestic trade policies of Trump will be in alignment with what Ron Paul and other Ayn Rand devotees propose. He promised deregul…

Ayn Rand in the novels has 'villains' who bring politicians into power who then decide upon legislation that then protects those 'villains' from cheaper and better competition.

The 'heros' in Ayn Rands novels embrace competition because they invent new things and know/think they are the best and the best should win.

So yes, protectionism as a concept to protect factories from cheaper and better competition is right out of the 'villains' playbook. This is also something that Thiel doesn't understand about Trump.

Also Trump supports coal against competition of cheaper energy. Not Trump, but the recent legislation efforts in Wyoming do exactly the same (protecting coal) and I'm sure Trump is at least happy with it.

"Trump might be moving the world towards a Galt's Gulch analogue"

No Trump is moving the world straight in the other direction. Protectionism is just the first step to protect his cronies (e.g. textile), next moves will be protecting coal against solar, oil/gas against electric cars etc.

How did Trump make his money? Not by inventing (e.g. Musk would be a 'hero' in Atlas Shrugged) but by shady deals on casinos, buildings and using the system (tax breaks etc.) for him, like the 'villains' in Ayn Rand novels. So for sure Trump is on the 'villain' side in Atlas Shrugged - if you don't agree, read it again ;-)

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#578

Post by rzhikharevich »

zeveb wrote: post #551
zczc wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another classic anti-utopia becoming relevant today is 'Brave New World' by Huxley. See brilliant comparison with '1984' on comic [1] which summarizes Neil Postman's book 'Amusing Ourselves to Death'. [1]: http://highexistence.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-huxley-v...

That's the thing: 1984 is North Korea, while Brave New World is the entire Western world. The latter was always scarier to me because someone will eventually rebel against a dictatorship of fear (it'll happen in NK someday), but no-one will ever defeat a dictatorship of mindless pleasure.

I think the West is both Brave New World (consumer society) and [partially] 1984 (mass surveillance by three-letter agencies).

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#579

Post by eli_gottlieb »

azernik wrote: post #180
jupiter90000 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really want him to get impeached and convicted, with Pence being the successor? Seems like a terrible idea...

From my (quite far-left) perspective, I would be very okay with that outcome. The Presidency's most unchecked power is in foreign policy, where Trump truly scares me. Pence as President would not change the balance of power in Congress, which is where most of the social and economic decisions (where I really have problems with Pence) would be made. Putting on my non-partisan hat, though, I am nervous about the preced…

>Putting on my non-partisan hat, though, I am nervous about the precedent of removing a president from office iff it is seen as a partisan move. The removal of Trump without widespread Republican support (as opposed to a small defecting faction) might be seen as precedent for a higher frequency of partisan impeachments - a danger to be weighed against (in my not-very-objective opinion) the dangers of a Trump presidency.

We already have a one-party state in which the Republican Party plays partisan hardball, as much as possible, to prevent elections from altering their control over the government. Why not fight back for once?

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#580

Post by eli_gottlieb »

mac01021 wrote: post #463
de_Selby wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cases I would agree, and I get your point about the language not helping the case the poster is trying to make, but is there anything inaccurate in saying he is lying, corrupt or a racist? You'd have a hard time arguing against any of the accusations.

I haven't seen any very compelling evidence that he's a racist. He may be (most likely is) corrupt but, as has been extensively discussed elsewhere, it is not clear that has done anything strictly illegal, which makes it tricky to say definitively. He definitely spouts outrageous lies all the time, though.

>He may be (most likely is) corrupt but, as has been extensively discussed elsewhere, it is not clear that has done anything strictly illegal, which makes it tricky to say definitively.

Legalized corruption remains corruption. It was when Clinton did it, and it is when Trump does it.

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