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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sleavey wrote: post #25
csomar wrote: post #18

In my opinion this is missing an important thing: Does the Swiss model scale? For example, the Singapore model can't scale. It's based on rich people and corporations arbitraging the international fiscal system. You can't have another Singapore without having another East Asia and West with it. Swiss is definitively a privileged place that is benefiting from the overall wealth of Europe and many other countries. We c…

There's no reason why it can't scale, but one problem in implementing this kind of system is convincing the population to accept higher taxes (and Swiss taxes are, overall, still significantly higher than the US despite what the article seems to make out). It is, ultimately a case of the government taking more of your personal wealth to provide services to society as a whole, which flies in stark contrast to the trad…

> There's no reason why it can't scale

I grew up in Switzerland. Nobody checked if we bought metro tickets. Everyone bought them. The only people I remember being little shits about it were tourists. Cultural norms do not informally enforce themselves at scale--you need institutions, and those institutions cost money and freedom.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#42

Post by louisswiss »

6DM wrote: post #35
csomar wrote: post #18

In my opinion this is missing an important thing: Does the Swiss model scale? For example, the Singapore model can't scale. It's based on rich people and corporations arbitraging the international fiscal system. You can't have another Singapore without having another East Asia and West with it. Swiss is definitively a privileged place that is benefiting from the overall wealth of Europe and many other countries. We c…

I think it would if we didn't spend so much money in military and defense. Edit: My reasoning is the result of seeing this type of information everywhere, I could be wrong: http://dy00k1db5oznd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/...

Per capita the US spends roughly 2x as much as Switzerland on defence.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#43

Post by alistairSH »

dingo_bat wrote: post #2

Lousy work culture that produces the best output in the world. If it is so bad why don't you stay in Switzerland and give up your American passport? Something must be making up for the competitive work culture. I wonder what that is.

Something must be making up for the competitive work culture. I wonder what that is.

You answered your own question.

best output in the world

You're defining "best output" as per capita GDP or something similar. But, money doesn't always buy happiness. Many European countries manage to maintain high GDP while also providing a work/life balance that allows citizens to enjoy themselves and live healthier, less stressful lifestyles.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#44

Post by zerr »

csomar wrote: post #18

In my opinion this is missing an important thing: Does the Swiss model scale? For example, the Singapore model can't scale. It's based on rich people and corporations arbitraging the international fiscal system. You can't have another Singapore without having another East Asia and West with it. Swiss is definitively a privileged place that is benefiting from the overall wealth of Europe and many other countries. We c…

Consider this from another PoV: there are a lot of talented people who refuse to join workforce because of those reasons (mentioned in the article). How much a country is losing from such talent loss?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#45

Post by gac55 »

arjie wrote: post #40
6DM wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would if we didn't spend so much money in military and defense. Edit: My reasoning is the result of seeing this type of information everywhere, I could be wrong: http://dy00k1db5oznd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/...

The rest of the world can do a lot of things when America develops drugs for them, protects them from harm, and designs new technology so humanity can progress. The peace that America has wrought across the world is unprecedented and, in doing so, she has made the world a safer place to trade than ever before. And trade greatly benefits nations like Switzerland. I'm not claiming they're freeloaders. This benefits us…

Can you provide any empirical evidence for this claim?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#46

Post by camperman »

There's another factor here that hasn't been mentioned: Switzerland is only a couple of hundred kilometres across. That makes a difference when it comes to public transport and other infrastructure like broadband. I laugh when I see case studies about high-speed broadband in Europe. Europe is small. If you put my country on top of Europe, the south-westernmost city would be in Portugal and the northernmost in Estonia. And the US is even bigger.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#47

Post by sleavey »

robertk wrote: post #36
sleavey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason why it can't scale, but one problem in implementing this kind of system is convincing the population to accept higher taxes (and Swiss taxes are, overall, still significantly higher than the US despite what the article seems to make out). It is, ultimately a case of the government taking more of your personal wealth to provide services to society as a whole, which flies in stark contrast to the trad…

Can you explain? Why higher taxes? Can't it be a mixture of private enterprises replacing some equivalent public institutions from the Swiss setup? Even non-profits if you can reach critical mass on tithes, cf effective altruism. Seems doable if you have good rhetoric and get a movement going.

Doesn't it come down to the argument about whether a private company can run a service (on behalf of society) more efficiently than the government itself? The article makes this pretty clear - $3,000 for giving birth in a Swiss hospital plus much better care, or $30,000 for bare minimum care in the US. I very much doubt it costs more to run hospitals in the US - even with the liberal lawsuit culture. It's more likely in my mind that the Swiss government holds insurers and hospitals to a higher standard, and enforces more protection for the insured, than in the US. (I'm no expert though)

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#48

Post by niccolop »

sleavey wrote: post #25
csomar wrote: post #18

In my opinion this is missing an important thing: Does the Swiss model scale? For example, the Singapore model can't scale. It's based on rich people and corporations arbitraging the international fiscal system. You can't have another Singapore without having another East Asia and West with it. Swiss is definitively a privileged place that is benefiting from the overall wealth of Europe and many other countries. We c…

There's no reason why it can't scale, but one problem in implementing this kind of system is convincing the population to accept higher taxes (and Swiss taxes are, overall, still significantly higher than the US despite what the article seems to make out). It is, ultimately a case of the government taking more of your personal wealth to provide services to society as a whole, which flies in stark contrast to the trad…

Does it not depend on the canton?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#49

Post by acqq »

robertk wrote: post #36
sleavey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason why it can't scale, but one problem in implementing this kind of system is convincing the population to accept higher taxes (and Swiss taxes are, overall, still significantly higher than the US despite what the article seems to make out). It is, ultimately a case of the government taking more of your personal wealth to provide services to society as a whole, which flies in stark contrast to the trad…

Can you explain? Why higher taxes? Can't it be a mixture of private enterprises replacing some equivalent public institutions from the Swiss setup? Even non-profits if you can reach critical mass on tithes, cf effective altruism. Seems doable if you have good rhetoric and get a movement going.

> Can't it be a mixture of private enterprises replacing some equivalent public institutions from the Swiss setup?

In short: no. Private institutions always just want to maximize profit, there has to be enough of the ideal of working for the common good.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture (2016)

#50

Post by louisswiss »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
sleavey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason why it can't scale, but one problem in implementing this kind of system is convincing the population to accept higher taxes (and Swiss taxes are, overall, still significantly higher than the US despite what the article seems to make out). It is, ultimately a case of the government taking more of your personal wealth to provide services to society as a whole, which flies in stark contrast to the trad…

> There's no reason why it can't scale I grew up in Switzerland. Nobody checked if we bought metro tickets. Everyone bought them. The only people I remember being little shits about it were tourists. Cultural norms do not informally enforce themselves at scale--you need institutions, and those institutions cost money and freedom.

Not to mention leading to a culture in which displaying genuine creativity and strong opinions will quickly destroy your social and career prospects.

This is changing for the better with the younger generations, however.

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