What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#51

Post by yummyfajitas » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 4:42 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #23

yummyfajitas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article suggests that schools are taking an interesting step to avoid such resentment: White appreciates, for example, that Harvard gives low-income students free tickets to the freshman formal, but they have to pick up the tickets in a different line from everyone else. “It’s clear who is getting free/reduced tickets and who isn’t,” he says... This seems like it might be an effective strategy. Take the people w…

Guys, yummyfajitas is kidding. Of course he wouldn't consider a grad student stipend "living on the largess of others". Right? This is Poe's Law, right?

I was on a stipend during grad school. And I was grateful, rather than resentful, towards the undergraduates and taxpayers (in my case, far more of the latter than the former) who paid for it.

I enjoy exploring ideas that are emotionally unpleasant, but which it's hard to construct a logical argument against. Some unpleasant ideas turn out to be correct!

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#52

Post by losteverything » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 4:43 PM UTC

Wow. How years can give perspective.

Oh how not true. It may feel like a disadvantage but everyone has some disadvantages.

A kept child that never had to contribute to meeting their families bills can never understand what that is like. To not have the backstop of a bank account.

Poor is not a indicator of effort for ivy-ers but a badge of success no kept young adult can ever experience.

Just like families where the marriage failed, the children will never know a happy home. And the mostly unsaid sense of decision failure associated with divorces. Everyone has some disadvantages. Turn them into advantages.

So my "advice" to a poor student is take your experience as a one-up to those around you that will never be able to know poor-mess. Most likely you earned your good future as it won't be given to you.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#53

Post by bbctol » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

Insanity wrote: post #37

This is one of the reasons why I do love the system here in Belgium. I studied at a university which is at the moment number 40 in the world university rankings ( https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin... ) which is pretty good if you ask me. And the price I paid for each year was about 700 euro plus whatever the books cost. Came to a total of about 4500 euro (books included) for the 5 years tha…

At elite schools in the US, the money spent on college is not the significant gap between those from wealthy or poor families, but the money spent before college (i.e., the background experiences they come in with) and the money spent outside of college (i.e., the experiences you can't engage in while your there.)

To be clear, affording college is a real struggle for lots of Americans, but if you get into a top Ivy school, it's usually a much smaller burden than a second-tier one. They have big financial aid programs; I have a friend going to Harvard from a lower-class background, and their tuition is essentially nothing, but they feel extremely out of place.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#54

Post by bbctol » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #14

Alex_Butters wrote: post #10

Even being a poor grad student at an Ivy feels like this. The undergrads are wealthy and the grad students cherish every dollar of their ~$30k salary while still sometimes do side work to get by since city's have rents set for the higher income undergrads. There was some resentment we had for our students to say the least.

This article suggests that schools are taking an interesting step to avoid such resentment: White appreciates, for example, that Harvard gives low-income students free tickets to the freshman formal, but they have to pick up the tickets in a different line from everyone else. “It’s clear who is getting free/reduced tickets and who isn’t,” he says... This seems like it might be an effective strategy. Take the people w…

It's weird how people who claim to like exploring "edgy" ideas never doubt the concept of property. Rich students exist on the largesse of grad students, not the other way around; the institution they attend would not exist without them.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#55

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #47

mustacheemperor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't students with wealthy families literally attending school thanks to the contributions of others? I say this as someone fortunate enough to have parents who saved their whole life to pay my tuition - I understand I am fortunate for that, I didn't literally earn that money in any way before attending school and performing well to justify it being spent, and I still can't argue that in any way is the same as lite…

Aren't students with wealthy families literally attending school thanks to the contributions of others? It would be ungrateful and counterproductive if such students felt resentment towards their parents, no? Don't grad students typically earn a stipend working a job anyway? I earn a salary by working a job which aims to make customers happy (same as when I was in grad school on a stipend). However, I don't feel rese…

[deleted]

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#56

Post by mustacheemperor » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #47

mustacheemperor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't students with wealthy families literally attending school thanks to the contributions of others? I say this as someone fortunate enough to have parents who saved their whole life to pay my tuition - I understand I am fortunate for that, I didn't literally earn that money in any way before attending school and performing well to justify it being spent, and I still can't argue that in any way is the same as lite…

Aren't students with wealthy families literally attending school thanks to the contributions of others? It would be ungrateful and counterproductive if such students felt resentment towards their parents, no? Don't grad students typically earn a stipend working a job anyway? I earn a salary by working a job which aims to make customers happy (same as when I was in grad school on a stipend). However, I don't feel rese…

I don't remotely follow the logic you're applying here. I did not suggest anywhere that these students feel resentment to their sources of financial support, but rather that highlighting class divisions in a university will breed resentful attitudes among students towards each other. Do poor students somehow owe something to wealthier ones just for attending the same school? Please describe in clear terms exactly what kind of logic you're applying here because to me it mostly seems like something an undergrad with a swiss watch would be boistering about in the dining hall.

Did you somehow get the impression I think grad students should be resentful towards the university because of their stipends? I think most of them are grateful - I meant to convey that it's disingenuous to think of a grad student's stipend as some kind of handout, I really can't understand how you interpreted that as you did.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#57

Post by greggman » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

misterbowfinger wrote: post #33

I can relate to this, though my situation is a little weirder than most. My parents were immigrants and we were very poor when I was younger. They became doctors sometime around middle school, so we effectively shifted up to upper-middle class. Our quality of life changed in a few ways - didn't have to think about the cost of healthcare or school. But we also didn't start buying fancy clothes, cars, or food. My paren…

What's your definition of rich white people? Just curious. AFAIK I've never met any "rich white people" of the type portrayed in nearly every Hollywood movie about school (high school or collage). I'm not saying they don't exist just that I haven't met any so I'm wondering if maybe I did and didn't know it.

I certainly didn't met any kids in high school that had any kind of money to flash (a fancy car or other expensive things to show off).

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#58

Post by ohyes » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #31

ohyes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been reading HN for years, I can confirm that yummyfajitas is not kidding. Although I think he was referring to financial aid rather than graduate stipends.

> Take the people who are living on the largess of others (e.g. grad students on a stipend,

Ah, okay... yeah.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#59

Post by rconti » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

tgb wrote: post #43

Alex_Butters wrote: post #10

Even being a poor grad student at an Ivy feels like this. The undergrads are wealthy and the grad students cherish every dollar of their ~$30k salary while still sometimes do side work to get by since city's have rents set for the higher income undergrads. There was some resentment we had for our students to say the least.

I'm a poor grad student at an ivy, and I have to say that I find just under 30k a year far more than enough for myself. The whole starving grad student just doesn't hold up in rich private institutes. I live in a cheap house with four others, but my peers have apartments in some of the nicest buildings around. I cook my own food most of the time, but many grad students eat out twice a day, even if only at a food truc…

I thought the stipends were more like $12k/yr and it was not allowed to seek outside work (though everyone did and had to, to get by).

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#60

Post by rconti » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

zebrafish wrote: post #44

I'm having a hard time understanding the issue or being empathetic. If somebody invites you to go to dinner and a movie, why cant you explain that you cant afford it or would rather not spend the money? Would you rather them not invite you? I've always found that rich people are not trying to put you down by talking about their boats, clothes, or businesses. They just live with a different set of parameters that peop…

I think the problem is just that already-insecure teenagers from background they feel insecure about are at institutions that make them feel even more insecure.

I agree we should be more open about money, but I think it's just hard when you're at that point in life.

It's from a starting point of privilege now that I make a good living, but I make it a point to say "I'm not sure I want to spend that much money" if friends talk about plans that don't strike me as worth it... rather than make some other excuse.