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George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

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Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress hasn't given blanket permission. The law says that it's illegal for certain government officials to accept gifts etc. It doesn't say anything about whether it's legal for the president to accept them; it merely says that the president is not within the scope of that particular law.

You don't have to have a law for something to be legal. All actions are legal unless stated otherwise.

In the absence of any law, yes, it would be legal.

Constitution has a clause that prohibits it for any public official including the president (assuming for the moment that it is the meaning of the emoluments clause), unless Congress specifically authorizes it.

Congress additionally passed a law - 18 U.S. Code § 202 and § 208 - that regulates conflicts of interest among government officials. Its domain intersects with the Emoluments Clause somewhat, but it is not an implementation of the Emoluments Clause. It says that certain actions by people other than the president are illegal. Insofar as it intersects with Emoluments Clause, it is at best redundant (although even then it defines clear penalties, so not really).

But there's nothing in it authorizing the president to receive emoluments. § 202 does contain language excluding certain people from the categories of "government officer" and "government employee", which are the target of § 208; but this simply means that § 208, and prohibitions in it specifically, do not apply to those people. In other words, the law doesn't say anything about them. It most certainly doesn't contain any language explicitly authorizing emoluments. Here, see for yourself:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/208 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/202

If we look at other past cases where the Emoluments Clause had to be dealt with, Congress specifically authorized such things, with clear verbiage to that effect. For example, here's the Foreign Gifts and Decorations Act:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/7342

Note the language: "The Congress consents to ..."

There's nothing even remotely similar in the law we are discussing.

The only real question for the courts here is whether receiving payment for goods and services from a foreign government qualifies as emolument or not. The originalist interpretation is in favor of that - this is one of those clauses in the Constitution where the Founders wrote a great deal about why it was there, and it's clear that their concerns were broad rather than narrow (preventing "foreign corruption" of all kinds).

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new trend ? You think Trump is inventing Whitehouse lies, right before our eyes? Politicians have a looooong history of lying, big lies that get peole killed ("Iraq WMDs are a slam dunk!") . Where have you been?

Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. This is different because not only did they lie about something that could be checked but the continued to lie even after being called out on it. Further the president repeated the lie and continues to repeat the lie. O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 y…

> O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies.

You can use the Obama birth certificate turn around as counter point and that was definitely less than 10 years.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new trend ? You think Trump is inventing Whitehouse lies, right before our eyes? Politicians have a looooong history of lying, big lies that get peole killed ("Iraq WMDs are a slam dunk!") . Where have you been?

Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. This is different because not only did they lie about something that could be checked but the continued to lie even after being called out on it. Further the president repeated the lie and continues to repeat the lie. O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 y…

So it's more acceptable for politicians to admit to their lies at a later date, that to stick to them? Hmm...

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#454
post #17

I must admit, I'm really confused by how impeachment works in the U.S.. Clinton was impeached for perjury and abuse of power because he took advantage of his position (and a political intern) and then lied about it. Now we have a president who is not giving up his business interests while in office and who has already told some absolute whoppers, including the release of official press releases that were nothing but…

> I'm really confused by how impeachment works in the U.S. Impeachment requires a crime. Lying isn't usually a crime, and as best I can tell hasn't been one any of the times Trump has done it (.. yet?). It also hasn't been a crime any of the times Obama has done it. Failure to give up business interests is breaking precedent and confounding ethicists, but also doesn't seem to be illegal. When we come up with somethin…

> Failure to give up business interests is breaking precedent and confounding ethicists, but also doesn't seem to be illegal.

On the contrary, it's explicitly legal as nothing the President does is considered a conflict. It's like that because otherwise everything and anything could be a construed a conflict of interest. In the interests of not having a continual flood of lawsuits the top of the executive branch is considered to be exempt from conflict of interest laws that otherwise affect the rest of government.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#456
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is Trump actively working to gut free press, due process, and a free and fair voting process? Can you share sources with those claims?

On his efforts to undermine a free press, just a couple that come to mind: - he threatened legal action against the NYT [1] - he said he would 'open up those libel laws' [2] - he lies about falling subscription numbers at the 'failing NYT' [3] - in his first press conference in the White House he attacked a reporter as 'fake news', and refused to answer questions by CNN [4] - he tweets [5] incorrect ratings numbers a…

[2] Talk is cheap. Honestly, what do you think is going to happen? And in 4 years when we look back, if it doesn't happen - what will you think?

[3] How is it a lie?

> is losing thousands of subscribers

You interpret this as net subscriber count to suit your narrative.

Now if the NYT lost subscribers during the election which they almost certainly did then the first part of the statement is literally correct.

Now the "because" phrase implies causation of "poor coverage". This would be difficult to work out unless the NYT had an exit survey and that data was public.

Without information, Trump is inferring that this is a reason. So if 1000 people left because of poor coverage, his statement is still literally correct.

So I do not understand how you can say it is a "lie" when the statement is "literally" correct.

If you wanted to say that it is "incorrect" then you must argue for your interpretation based on relevance.

If you wanted to say "vague" then you can also say that.

It seems very common place to call everything a "lie" these days, when there is never enough information to evaluate the factuality of it.

Modern "fact-checking" is a scary thing because depending on how you want to define things, you can "prove" any statement true or false how you like. This is a very scary thing.

[5] FOX 8.7M vs CNN 2.6M

[7] didn't happen. That is fake news.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#457
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. This is different because not only did they lie about something that could be checked but the continued to lie even after being called out on it. Further the president repeated the lie and continues to repeat the lie. O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 y…

> O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies. You can use the Obama birth certificate turn around as counter point and that was definitely less than 10 years.

Right. That and the birth certificate thing wasn't a "lie", it was ignorant, dog whistle politicking.

Telling people you are going to strengthen whistle blowing laws to empower workers, then prosecuting a record number of people under the Espionage act is closer to a damaging lie.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#459
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I guess to you breaking the Foreign Emoluments Clause in the Constitution is nothing. And its funny you say that when that is exactly why they impeached Clinton.

The argument that Trump is breaking the emoluments clause by (for instance) having foreign governments paying market rents as tenants in his building is ridiculously thin. Here's the real trouble with these ridiculously exaggerated criticisms of everything Trump: there's nowhere to go from here. By the time Trump actually does something bad, everyone will be totally immune to the constant wailing, it will be impossib…

"Emolument. Noun. Profit, salary, or fees from office or employment; compensation for services"

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/emolument

Receiving market rate for a service absolutely does count.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes; a couple of years after the Stasi was created, though it was called Kommissariat 5 back then, before the GDR was officially established and could have official agencies.

So, you are claiming that he looked into the future to see what happens with the Stasi? But even if you want to get technical: He started writing in 1946 and the final manuscript was presented in 1948. The "Volkskommissariat" may have been around, but you really can not compare their activity to the Stasi. If you were talking about them, then your quote makes no sense at all.

> So, you are claiming that he looked into the future to see what happens with the Stasi?

No, I'm claiming that from his position (particularly after his involvement in the Spanish Civil War), he was informed of the founding and early activities of the Stasi, and wrote the book based on the thought-experiment "what if a whole country was dominated by these principles?"

> The "Volkskommissariat" may have been around, but you really can not compare their activity to the Stasi.

That's not surprising, considering how "[i]n reality, K-5 was only nominally housed in the People's Police" (Dennis and Laporte, 2003).

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