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Safari 10.1

developer.apple.com

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Re: Safari 10.1

#151

Post by threeseed »

soperj wrote: post #120
xenadu02 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is fair to discount battery life, memory usage, and performance so heavily. Looking at the http://caniuse.com list there are plenty of features supported by Safari and not supported by Chrome including Audio Tracks, Video Tracks, ES6 modules, SVG Fonts, Animated PNG, CSS regions. Safari is actually the first to 100% ES6 compliance; Chrome sits at 89%. I would also remind everyone that Google chose to…

That's only the newest version of Safari, before that it was pretty shit (on par with IE). Can't expect the mind share to change overnight, especially when it has lagged for years.

It's really weird to see this myth about Safari being the new IE6. At no point did Apple abandoned WebKit or add proprietary features to the extent that Microsoft did. They've continued to plug away adding new functionality and as has been mentioned they are ahead of Chrome/Edge in some areas and behind in others.

Some features in particular service workers Apple has deliberately chosen to take a firm position on because they value battery life and security.

Re: Safari 10.1

#152

Post by paublyrne »

eridius wrote: post #110
philliphaydon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless of course you touch type in which case you end up looking at the keyboard now....

No you don't. Why would you? Touch-typing relies on you knowing where each key is, and the Escape key is still in the same place it always was.

Sometimes I actually miss and hit the area just above it. I have nothing to catch as my finger goes to the area.

Re: Safari 10.1

#153

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

soperj wrote: post #120
xenadu02 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is fair to discount battery life, memory usage, and performance so heavily. Looking at the http://caniuse.com list there are plenty of features supported by Safari and not supported by Chrome including Audio Tracks, Video Tracks, ES6 modules, SVG Fonts, Animated PNG, CSS regions. Safari is actually the first to 100% ES6 compliance; Chrome sits at 89%. I would also remind everyone that Google chose to…

That's only the newest version of Safari, before that it was pretty shit (on par with IE). Can't expect the mind share to change overnight, especially when it has lagged for years.

Are you really saying that all the admirable aforementioned features only shipped with the LATEST version of safari? Because that's straight up bullshit.

Re: Safari 10.1

#154

Post by Vinnl »

j_s wrote: post #30
tdumitrescu wrote: post #7

Whew. Custom Elements, Fetch, and async/await all at once? Christmas came real early in 2017...

Does this mean Safari is no longer the new IE? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9804533

You could not uninstall IE, but at least you could install Firefox on Windows.

You can't use any truly different browser than Safari on iOS, so until that's possible, I'm hating on it as much on iOS as I hated on IE on Windows.

Even if it's lagging behind less than IE did, I still strongly dislike being at Apple's mercy rather than the users'.

Re: Safari 10.1

#155

Post by Vinnl »

FLGMwt wrote: post #80
ArlenBales wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad we still have to use shims until iOS Safari catches up (hopefully this year).

Hah, you just saved me from prematurely ripping out a fetch shim the second I saw it on the feature list.

Still not supported by IE, I'm afraid :(

Re: Safari 10.1

#156

Post by kalleboo »

franciscop wrote: post #38

We just need support for required as in now (; http://stackoverflow.com/q/23261301/938236 > If an attribute is not listed here, it is not supported by Safari and WebKit: https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Ap...

Safari 10.1 hasn't actually been released yet, so the documentation hasn't been updated yet.

Re: Safari 10.1

#157

Post by kalleboo »

alwillis wrote: post #142
madeofpalk wrote: post #56

I'm always pleasantly surprised when Apple graces us with Safari updates. They tend to come with fairly cutting edge features when they actually ship. The opportunity they have at the moment is the super long gap between releases, which is even more apparent on iOS. I wish Safari could switch to a more Chrome-like model of shipping smaller updates more frequently, perhaps in an evergreen model. I guess there's only s…

You do realize that Safari's engine WebKit is used for mission critical things in macOS and iOS… many apps like Mail, the App Store, iTunes and many thousands of 3rd party applications, right? Every WebView in a macOS or iOS app is backed by WebKit—it's not just a browser; it's an extremely important system software component on over a billion devices. I think Safari Tech Preview and WebKit Nightlies are a good trade…

Isn't it the same situation with Chrome on Android?

Re: Safari 10.1

#158

Post by intoverflow2 »

mmanfrin wrote: post #73
macrael wrote: post #50

Safari is a great browser and I'm sometimes surprised at how huge Chrome's mindshare among developers is. Every time I try Chrome out on my Mac I end up running screaming back to Safari. Safari doesn't choke on tons of tabs, it doesn't eat battery and memory for breakfast, it's never started autoplaying videos when I open a tab in the background, it's got support for picture in picture video which is my most used new…

Because Safari has consistently lagged behind Chrome and Firefox for functionality and standards compliance? And still does: http://caniuse.com

Which is bad for developer centric product design but what about user centric product design?

Honestly feel like I'm back in the IE era at times as I go over to devs and point out something isn't working only to be told "try it in Chrome".

Only difference between the IE era and the Chrome era is the self satisfied grin that they're on the cutting edge when something only works in Chrome.

Re: Safari 10.1

#159

Post by jbmorgado »

mitchty wrote: post #118
ebbv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People may be downvoting you because this meme that Safari needs open development of extensions is tired and they're sick of reading it.

Extensions in the gallery also didn't take a $100 membership until 2015. Needless to say not many people developed extensions then either. So blaming Safari membership as being the problem for extensions not being developed seems to also miss the history of extensions. Also you can install extensions outside of the gallery: https://github.com/el1t/uBlock-Safari/releases

So, the way Apple choose to solve the lack of extensions for their browser was to keep everything the same and charge 100$/year on top of that. Doesn't seem like a very smart business practice.

In any case you are forgetting that although you can install extensions made outside Apple Dev. program, you can't update them because they aren't signed. You have to keep checking the extension page (like uBlock Origin), see when there is a new version, download the new version, and re-install it... all manually.

Re: Safari 10.1

#160

Post by madeofpalk »

alwillis wrote: post #142
madeofpalk wrote: post #56

I'm always pleasantly surprised when Apple graces us with Safari updates. They tend to come with fairly cutting edge features when they actually ship. The opportunity they have at the moment is the super long gap between releases, which is even more apparent on iOS. I wish Safari could switch to a more Chrome-like model of shipping smaller updates more frequently, perhaps in an evergreen model. I guess there's only s…

You do realize that Safari's engine WebKit is used for mission critical things in macOS and iOS… many apps like Mail, the App Store, iTunes and many thousands of 3rd party applications, right? Every WebView in a macOS or iOS app is backed by WebKit—it's not just a browser; it's an extremely important system software component on over a billion devices. I think Safari Tech Preview and WebKit Nightlies are a good trade…

Yup. Of course I realise that. But also I believe that implementation details of iTunes also shouldn't hold users (and/or developers) back.

Safari Tech Preview was a huge surprise and an awesome leap for community engagement and awareness of upcoming works. But the realities are that "the industry" is moving ahead faster than Safari's (at best) twice-a-year release cycle. I can 1005 appreciate vendors taking time to let 'specs' 'settle', but Safari's comparatively infrequent cycle puts them at a weird pace.

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