How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains • Hacker News Board

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#121

Post by nojvek » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 4:59 AM UTC

kalendae wrote: post #112

pavel_lishin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our bodies can cool themselves decently well by sweating. I think that if the climate was affecting you to the point where your brain was getting cooked, the symptom would probably be less "slightly dumber" and more "seizures and organ failure". But I'm not a doctor or a scientist, so I could be completely wrong. Hopefully someone more informed will weigh in.

When diving to 90ft+ you get 'stupider' (nitrogen narcosis). Our instructor had us do simple math problems on a board underwater and timed us. We were doing them very very slowly but you don't feel that it is slower. It was an interesting experience meant to warn you that you won't realize that you are affected by nitrogen narcosis.

I've been there. It feels so good, you forget things and get unfocused

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#122

Post by taneq » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 4:59 AM UTC

sehr wrote: post #114

joshmarlow wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He mentioned it in a blog post sometime ago [0]. No news on it's status, alas. [0] http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=5438

I will admit that it won’t be quite as upbeat as my other endings. I'm now more excited for this than winds of winter, wow.

> [not] quite as upbeat as my other endings.

Wow, this guy sure knows how to make a statement.

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#123

Post by taneq » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:00 AM UTC

solipsism wrote: post #48

pavel_lishin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portia spiders are also referenced in Peter Watts' Echopraxia. (Some spoilers could be inferred from thinking about this too hard while reading the novel.)

Some spoilers could be inferred from thinking about this too hard while reading the novel Not.. if you don't say that...

Well, iirc they do actually reference these spiders right there in the novel, so it's not THAT much of a spoiler.

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#124

Post by Gibbon1 » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 7:24 AM UTC

spqr0a1 wrote: post #108

drcross wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean 100% because ants are clones. The only difference between them and the queen is the nurturing process they go through which influences epigenetics.

Welcome to the complexities of Hymenoptera genetics! Workers are 75% related to each other (sisters) and only 50% related to their mother (the queen). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplodiploidy#Relatedness_rati...

I remember reading essay on bees and altruism. Standard line is bees are altruistic because workers are 75% related. Author made the claim that's bunkum because a) Honey bees are rather extreme. b) Multiple male fathers.

Bee reproductive setups are really diverse with honey bees at one end, solitary bees at the other, and just about anything else between.

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#125

Post by lacampbell » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 7:56 AM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #65

chongli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess: neural networks have to operate on pixel data whereas real neurons don't. Brains and eyes have evolved in tandem. Perhaps what makes them so efficient is that the eyes handle some of the processing as a consequence of their physical shape and characteristics. Look at the eyes of bees. Very different from our own (and from the cameras we build) and perhaps very specialized to the limited set of task…

That's much of a topology thing...our brain may be a CPU, but we have neurons throughout much of our body, processing extremely low level sensory inputs into richer information that brains can process at a higher level. And different species have very different neural topologies: I've heard it described that Octopoda act more like an eight-member swarm intelligences than an intelligent eight-armed creature. Because t…

Monolithic brain or modular microbrains...it's the Torvalds/Tannenbaum debate all over again!

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#126

Post by Gibbon1 » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 8:15 AM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #63

cr0sh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of Minsky's criticisms came before current and modern implementations of neural networks, using extremely large datasets and large GPU processing. I'm not saying his criticisms are invalid - and certainly should not be tossed aside! We are in the very early stages of another "AI Spring" - I have the inkling of an opinion that if we are to advanced further in the GAI direction, it will be by applying these same k…

They did come before our current datasets and processing power, but those were very predictable trends back then. I think the biggest flaw in his criticisms were that they were mathematically focused on very simple neural topologies. And while larger datasets and better processing power would have helped all ML methods, NNs have benefitted from the combination of external advances combined with very significant topol…

My impression from the 1970's AI stuff was that Minsky was of the opinion that neural nets were an inefficient (what a way to run a rail road) way to do biological computation. And general purpose computers were working at a high level of abstraction. Appear not to be the case.

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#127

Post by posterboy » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 10:19 AM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #24

acqq wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What should I take away from this? Just that you should not omit with "..." the most important part of the statement for you. You haven't studied physics. Then you see the formula and the textual name of it with the most probable entry in Wikipedia and then you throw the most useful bit for you away and ask what the formula without the name means, even though the name would give you an explanation. pc86's quote: >…

I assumed there was some relation between k T log 2 joules and 20 Watts, probably giving some sort of context to how easily or not easily information in our brains could be lost. The theoretical principles behind the amount of energy required to erase one bit, while interesting, doesn't necessary matter for that relationship, does it?

the log 2 comes from Shannon coding, because information (tm) encoding is modeled on a bit string of discrete energetic states (something quantum, too, I guess). And there is a transformation to the frequency domain (ie via discrete fourier transform). Entropy is always messured in Watt, doesn't. make sense to equate psychologic information content with physiologic enthropic consumption.

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#128

Post by zeroer » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 10:41 AM UTC

joshmarlow wrote: post #102

zeroer wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only made it through one third of the sequel. I thought the quality had taken a dramatic step down and couldn't bring myself to finish it.

The story-telling wasn't as great, but the ideas he plays with are still good (though admittedly not as great as the first).

Meh. I thought the ideas were no longer grounded in what's possible in this universe.

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#129

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 10:43 AM UTC

panxie wrote: post #58

david-given wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who don't believe that spiders can be cute: https://adlayasanimals.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/u2byv.jpg Also, I got interested and tried to find some documentation on Portia Labiata after reading Watts' book, and there's very, very little, but what he says appears to be true. They do have telescopic eyes with vibrating retinas. They do spend ages painstakingly scanning a scene before moving. They are absu…

In English is it correct to say spiders are insects? In my native language (portuguese) it would be not accurate, as they are arachnida class, along with scorpions,mites and ticks.

[deleted]

Re: How insects like bumblebees do so much with tiny brains

#130

Post by dspillett » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 10:43 AM UTC

panxie wrote: post #58

david-given wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who don't believe that spiders can be cute: https://adlayasanimals.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/u2byv.jpg Also, I got interested and tried to find some documentation on Portia Labiata after reading Watts' book, and there's very, very little, but what he says appears to be true. They do have telescopic eyes with vibrating retinas. They do spend ages painstakingly scanning a scene before moving. They are absu…

In English is it correct to say spiders are insects? In my native language (portuguese) it would be not accurate, as they are arachnida class, along with scorpions,mites and ticks.

No, they are not referred to as insects in (correct) English either, they are arachnids - though sometimes people do not make the distinction.

To refer to both insects and spiders & similar in one term you could use the (rather less formal) terms "bugs" or "creepy crawlies". I can 't think of anything more formal off the top of my head.