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Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

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Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? Prime land in California? Average acre in America is $4000 [1], so wouldn't call $7183 an acre cheap. 1: http://www.agweb.com/mobile/land/farmland-value-guide/

That average has to include vast areas of aggressively useless and unwanted land (eg Wyoming).

Yeah, although Wyoming land is reportedly good for some things (eg grazing), quick Google searches seem to suggest price per acre more around $450 an acre statewide (http://trib.com/business/land-values-skyrocket-in-parts-of-w...).

The thing is, agriculture fertility is not the only factor in rural land price these days -- I've heard ala the linked article that investing in land for hedging / portfolio diversity purposes is popular. It's also no surprise to hear that more aesthetically attractive rural areas will fetch a premium (I would seriously doubt the area around the Grand Tetons region is just $450 an acre for instance; the linked article suggests as much).

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#102
post #75

Agriculture in our age must shift from productivity first to sustainability first, because we are running out of fossil energy allowing to produce most of the fertilizers, and we have already killed our soil with it. A farm involving a lot of machines (i.e. a lot of need for energy) might not be the way to go in order to keep the agricultural system stable. The most you ask from the soil, the poorer it gets, and then…

> Instead of less farmers, we need more That's bad for the economy and productivity, and for the environment in the end because more farmers with smaller land are squeezing for gains. It's especially a problem in in the EU where agriculture is heavily regulated and EU-subsidized. Take a look at the countries with the largest agricultural population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_countries_by_employme... And…

But if you follow the parent's argument, food prices are artificially low because they don't factor in fossil fuel limits/emissions as well as other effects of soil depletion.

One big problem in America that we haven't even begun to fully address is the Ogallala Aquifer's rapid depletion. Without it we will need truly massive infrastructure investments to maintain one of the world's biggest breadbaskets.

So maybe more farmers would be bad for the economy now, but eventually we are gonna have to pay the bill for all the quick and dirty growth we've built our society on, which means things could be much, much worse for our parents or grandchildren.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#103

Agriculture in our age must shift from productivity first to sustainability first, because we are running out of fossil energy allowing to produce most of the fertilizers, and we have already killed our soil with it. A farm involving a lot of machines (i.e. a lot of need for energy) might not be the way to go in order to keep the agricultural system stable. The most you ask from the soil, the poorer it gets, and then…

Do you have a link to this olive farm you speak of? Like a facebook page or something?

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#104
This sounds like a farm that raises perfectly spherical cows of uniform density. :)

As others have pointed out, "productive" in terms of sheer foodstuff mass is not necessarily the optimal measure of a farm's effectiveness, or even a good one. More broadly, the phrasing of your question is an attempt to apply reductionist, scientific method thinking to what desperately needs to be a holistic question.

First, let's consider some of the things we might measure. We could measure resilence - how well the farm can handle changes in, say, weather in the short term and climate in the long term. We can measure diversity - how many different kinds of products are grown/raised there? We could measure quality - are the foods raised there as delicious as possible? (Another way to think of it - can they fetch maximum price at market?) We can measure profitability. We can measure chemical consumption. Soil depletion and erosion. Etc.

Now, what can we "yield"? Are we raising corn, cows, Christmas trees? Lots of farming is devoted to non-edible things. The #1 consumer of insecticide for farming isn't food at all - it's cotton. These questions spill over into macroeconomic factors that extend beyond the farm. For example, high density animal farming is the primary consumer of antibiotics, and the primary reason we are seeing a rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria globally. So the farming practice of "maximizing yield per acre" leads to human health problems that may wind up killing millions.

So basic to questions about robotics and automation. First, automation has been changing farms not just for years, but for centuries. 200 years ago, 90% of all Americans were farmers. Now, it's like 3%, while yield has grown drastically. That's automation at work. A tractor is a form of robot, if you think about it.

Now, automation can be used to improve some of the factors other than yield. For example, a weed-picking robot (or an army of them) could be far more effective than herbicides, with less environmental impact. And a lot of what's going on now in ag tech isn't active, but passive - sensors and measurements. For example, if you can analyze the soil on a per-foot basis rather than a per-acre or per-lot basis, and feed that data into chemical spreading machinery, you can both reduce chemical consumption and increase yield simultaneously.

Fertilizers, herbicides, and insecticides are expensive. Reducing their consumption makes farms more profitable. And honestly, we're more interested in making farms more profitable than more "productive" in terms of yield alone.

Just some food for thought.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#105

Agriculture in our age must shift from productivity first to sustainability first, because we are running out of fossil energy allowing to produce most of the fertilizers, and we have already killed our soil with it. A farm involving a lot of machines (i.e. a lot of need for energy) might not be the way to go in order to keep the agricultural system stable. The most you ask from the soil, the poorer it gets, and then…

Sorry, but I think this is nonsense. Robots are incredible more efficient and energy saving than humans. Do you really thing a human would use less energy driving a car/tractor than a robot? Robots never lose attention, are very easy to measure their performance and are incredibly accurate. And I'm not sure why humans would use less fertilizer/pesticides than robots? If you have a system that works better, then tell…

Robots can do repetitive tasks in tightly constrained conditions faster and more accurately than a human. But anything that involves incomplete/inaccurate data, wildly varying conditions, and most importantly, decision making is best left to humans.

That's why computers run code, and humans write code.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#106
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This land by the way will cost you approximately $7,183 per acre. That's surprisingly cheap. A farm near me, with similar production capabilities, recently sold for $25,000/acre. Around here, you won't find anything really worth farming for much under $15,000/acre on the low end these days.

Do I have to be a US citizen to buy land in US?

No, although you'll probably want a lawyer in addition to a real estate agent if you're a non-resident, and financing might be trickier as well.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#107

IMO a lot of companies are trying to put more sensors on things which seems kinda dumb to me. Ok you can put 100 soil moisture sensors in my one field for 'precision ag' but what happens when i drive a big ass tractor over the field and smash the sensors? There is a push for being more 'data-driven' and many farmers are adopting these technologies now. Some companies are more of a book-keeping type thing where you ca…

I would assume that they're building sensors that can handle a tractor driving over them.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is fully automated agriculture impossible?

I'll take a quick stab. First off it's not a software computer system. Their are so many different elements in play. Your robot needs to know about soil science, agronomy, pests, weather predictions, stock markets, machinery, the list goes on. Farmers have to wear many different hats. You are a seed scientists for part of year when you figure out which seed you should plant for next season. This choice involves many…

Growing up on a family farm & surrounded by farmers, most of them are not great at any of that. I do think there is a lot of potential for automation for each one of the things you mentioned. At first it can help farmers make better decisions. Slowly it can grow to make those decisions on its own.

A 'huge' part farmers struggle with is trying to guess when to purchase & sell their products. That's everything from the end product to the seed & fertilizers. Also, tech could help farmers get a heads up on if there might be global surplus or shortage on certain crops. Sensor based tools can do a much better job on how much & where to put fertilizer. I've even seen demos of not using pesticides but friggen laser beams to shoot only certain types of insects.

My prediction is future farms will look like giant JavaScript projects with crazy long package.json files!! There are so many possible tools that could improve a farmer's life. I can even see "Tool Fatigue" being discussed at the local gas & coffee shops.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#109
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you follow the money, it's easy to see why the US has focused its research on high-tech petrochemical fertilizer farming and GMOs. You can sell proprietary fertilizers, herbicides, insecticides, and seeds, but it's much harder to monetize new farming techniques. I believe this means that you are not aware of the work of Norman Borlaug [1] [2]. Basically the very fact that we don't have famines now in places like…

Right, I've heard the Western narrative on Norman Borlaug and the "Green Revolution". I'd highly encourage you to read through the work of Vandana Shiva. [1] She'll provide a well-researched, critical view as an actual stakeholder in India's food system. I look down upon petro-chemical fertilizers because of their disastrous effects on the environment and food security. Happy to elaborate, but Dr. Shiva work does it…

You keep throwing the phrase "petro-chemical fertilizers" around but I can't see how it can make sense except for denigrating the concept and spreading FUD (which is counterproductive). Ammonia is just NH3 and there is nothing "petro" (i.e. hydrocarbons) in it, that hydrogen can be obtained anywhere and the nitrogen is literally around you.

Can you please elaborate on how fixing nitrogen on industrial scale is "disastrous"? What difference do you see between bio-available nitrogen that originated in root nodules and chemical reactor?

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