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Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

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Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#51
post #29
post #27

What are your goals for you research or project? Many ideas stumble not on the technology, but on the people aspects of the project. If your goal is a single family sustainable farm, I've read reports of 2 or 3 acres being plenty for a family of four if you are in an area with enough rainfall (Ohio, for example). However, they needed to have outside income since their land did not produce everything the needed. If yo…

This is just a tiny part of a much broader goal, which is to create a completely self sustaining town of 100 to 1000 people within my lifetime. My intention is with 100k that could get you 10 acres. 1 acre for food, 5 for solar/energy production and 4 for housing/community. Of course, with the comments in this thread, I'd need more land, haha. As far as the economics goes: I've been doing reading but haven't formed a…

How will this town get medicine and technologies like replacement solar panels? Will people pay with USD into a general fund that would be used to buy from the outside world? What happens if people can't pay?

Sorry about all the questions, but a community that small can hardly be self sustaining in a real sense without lots of imports or a massive step down in quality of life.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#53
post #29
post #27

What are your goals for you research or project? Many ideas stumble not on the technology, but on the people aspects of the project. If your goal is a single family sustainable farm, I've read reports of 2 or 3 acres being plenty for a family of four if you are in an area with enough rainfall (Ohio, for example). However, they needed to have outside income since their land did not produce everything the needed. If yo…

This is just a tiny part of a much broader goal, which is to create a completely self sustaining town of 100 to 1000 people within my lifetime. My intention is with 100k that could get you 10 acres. 1 acre for food, 5 for solar/energy production and 4 for housing/community. Of course, with the comments in this thread, I'd need more land, haha. As far as the economics goes: I've been doing reading but haven't formed a…

The keyword here is "intentional community", and there's a long history of people trying to make it work and sometimes succeeding nicely.

But neither farming nor technology is key to making it work. The challenges in decreasing order of size are: interpersonal (requires a lot more collaborative effort and management of drama than you'd expect); legal/administrative (you still need to pay e.g. property tax & comply with building codes & farming law); cashflow (you still need to buy from outside, especially if you're hightech); and only then the day to day of growing food (which may be more labour than you or the community is used to).

On the <100 people scale it's like having roommates who are also co-workers. Hence the tendency for intentional communities to come with some level of cultishness to ensure the community sticks together without being pulled apart by individuality.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#54
post #49

Agriculture in our age must shift from productivity first to sustainability first, because we are running out of fossil energy allowing to produce most of the fertilizers, and we have already killed our soil with it. A farm involving a lot of machines (i.e. a lot of need for energy) might not be the way to go in order to keep the agricultural system stable. The most you ask from the soil, the poorer it gets, and then…

I don't see any justification though for why humans need to do the labor. This guy found a nice pollination technique. Great, teach it to the robots or spend time teaching the robots how to analyze different techniques for effectiveness. Humans are not great at farming, that's why we have entire industries producing tools to help them do better. It's silly to think that riding around in a tractor all day is a better…

The reality is that you are not going to feed a town with a tractor or a robot acting as a tractor. This is because with your robot, you are producing cereals. If you want to feed the town, you need fruits and vegetables.

Now, if you want high density, sustainable fruits and vegetables production, you need to pay extremely attention to your soil. Practically it means, try to never walk on it and produce multiple species on the same area to use the different patterns of root networks, shadow and cross protection effects.

If you do that, you end up being highly productive on a small surface but it is also very hard to see opportunities in using robots. Take a look at a very smart people running a small farm[0], he is relentless in using and building the right tools to save work and improve output etc.

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Market-Gardener-Successful-Handbook-S...

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#56

Agriculture in our age must shift from productivity first to sustainability first, because we are running out of fossil energy allowing to produce most of the fertilizers, and we have already killed our soil with it. A farm involving a lot of machines (i.e. a lot of need for energy) might not be the way to go in order to keep the agricultural system stable. The most you ask from the soil, the poorer it gets, and then…

Sorry, but I think this is nonsense.

Robots are incredible more efficient and energy saving than humans.

Do you really thing a human would use less energy driving a car/tractor than a robot?

Robots never lose attention, are very easy to measure their performance and are incredibly accurate.

And I'm not sure why humans would use less fertilizer/pesticides than robots?

If you have a system that works better, then tell the robot and it will do it.

Or are we tilling by hand and introducing all the work place deaths this introduces? Farmers die at a high rate, I don't think it's that noble in it's old form.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#57
post #25
post #11

The fully automated farm is a few years off. Here in Michigan large families with one or two employees farm 5-10,000 acres. With good Iowa or Illinois farmland you can expect 200 bushels of corn per acre or 60 bushels of soybeans. This land by the way will cost you approximately $7,183 per acre. If you're interested in this topic you might consider attending the precision ag conference, the next one will be in 2018 h…

Those are some pretty wild corn yields - 5 ton/acre - is it irrigated? In Australia dryland farming about half as productive is around $2,000/acre

Iowa is mostly not irrigated.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#58
Hello. I'm a physicist working in agriculture, in Portugal (olive oil, malt cereal, legumes).

There are a lot of things to say about this subject, but I'll stick to the two points that were originally raised.

1. Fully automated farms are possible in theory for a small range of applications (like greenhouses). Human supervision and operation is usually necessary, mainly because of the elements and wildlife (e.g. humidity damages machines/sensors, animals chew wires/irrigation tubes, underground rocks are still invisible to surface dwelling tractors), so failure is a constant. GPS guided machines are now being widely used for sowing and pesticide application, with benefits in terms of both cost and time (fuel) reduction.

Automation in irrigation is now everywhere. One can easily find fully-automated center pivot irrigation systems.

Some fields have been adapted to allow for automation, like olive orchards. Olives can now be harvested in a fraction of the time it used to take, with a single machine and operator (a ~30 ha orchard will take 1-2 days with 1 machine and operator vs. 5-7 days for 2 or 3 machines and a team of 10; in the recent past there would be no machines and a team of 20).

There are some clear benefits in using drones that scan crops for detection of spots where irrigation fails or some fungus is starting to spread in advance, and also allow for better sampling for analysis. Besides any farmer can afford a drone nowadays.

Automation is usually expensive (for the first investment at least), and as such only large scale (corporate) farms can afford it. Cooperative family-scale farming can reduce the cost/acre (e.g. time sharing one single harvest machine) but there are pros and cons.

1.2 IoT in agriculture: please don't.

1.3 There are still fewer people in farming. I don't know if automation is the only one to blame, because either way farming is tough. Perhaps the wages may not be the most interesting for some one not already in the business, as well as the overall lifestyle. The lowest wages correspond to jobs being replaced by automation, so those salaries are dropping even more.

2. Crop yield largely depends on soil quality, proper irrigation and seed variety. Seasonal factors also play an important role, such as unpredicted disease surges. Technology already has the means to improve here, and part of what the future will be resumes to the dissemination of these already known practices.

2.1) One cannot avoid mentioning OGM seeds OGM seeds are not that impressive for me. Predicted yields from OGM seeds are said to be greater that non-OGM seeds, but the difference can be achieved alone with proper agricultural practices and cheaper non-OGM seeds. I have never tried it, but I suspect that OGM seeds yield in those ideal conditions will converge with non-OGM yields because OGM seeds are not the incredible Hulk, and non-OGM cultivars are pretty great as well. Also, pesticide resistance is not a good thing in itself, allowing for wasteful and unhealthy over-the-top usage, for example. There are many gimmicks in this area, and the possibility for patenting is the major responsible (I think).

2.2) Plasma physics Plasmas have been used to treat seeds before sowing, apparently with some good results. Still in research, I will not say it works or that it is feasible.

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The future of agriculture can take two distinct directions from now on, in my opinion. It either moves towards scaling up the current technology (corporate agriculture is already doing this) or it will start to incorporate some rather new practices that, although not opposed to machine/chemistry based technology, just do not need them as much. The latter works for both small scale and, to some extent, big scale farming.

In the particular case of olive trees, the dynamics of its auxiliary species is well known. Maintaining the top 4 or 5 species in the local ecosystem can reduce the usage of fungicides, insecticides, as well as erosion and soil correction needs. This is not "new age farming" but mainstream hard science that has been coming out of Universities in the field. But plain old Chemistry is still the farmers' closest friend, unfortunately.

Global warming will change (and to some scale already is changing) everything to the worse. Some bad days are coming.

Re: Ask HN: What's happening in agricultural technology?

#60
post #54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any justification though for why humans need to do the labor. This guy found a nice pollination technique. Great, teach it to the robots or spend time teaching the robots how to analyze different techniques for effectiveness. Humans are not great at farming, that's why we have entire industries producing tools to help them do better. It's silly to think that riding around in a tractor all day is a better…

The reality is that you are not going to feed a town with a tractor or a robot acting as a tractor. This is because with your robot, you are producing cereals. If you want to feed the town, you need fruits and vegetables. Now, if you want high density, sustainable fruits and vegetables production, you need to pay extremely attention to your soil. Practically it means, try to never walk on it and produce multiple spec…

People can survive on cereals.
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