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What does it take to be a good programmer?

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Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#81

Post by flukus »

Clubber wrote: post #65
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. Identify what it means to be good You'll never get a solid definition for a good programmer, and that's the problem. If we knew that, we would have a list of things to learn and teach and we could easily make that a standard interview test before giving people a job. And no one would need to write any more "10 things you need to know as a programmer" articles.

If you ask other programmers, you will get a bunch of answers. If you ask the guy who cuts your checks, a good programmer is someone who can solve their problems and make their business more efficient.

The guy that cuts the checks doesn't know if the programmer is sacrificing long term maintenance for short term problem solving.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#82

Post by tomcam »

YZF wrote: post #77

Here's my take: - You need to think a certain way. You need to be able to see how to translate a problem into something a machine can execute. You need to be able to switch from the macro to the micro smoothly. - You need a certain level of proficiency with the tools you're using. Those can be programming languages/OSes/libraries/other software. - You need experience. Having seen different approaches to solving vario…

Algorithm knowledge too

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#83

Post by sidcool »

keithnz wrote: post #40

Well, I've been programming 30+ years..... I think one of the main things that makes a good programmer is someone who cares about the final product. Ironically this doesn't necessarily mean you have to be super good at writing code. I have seen people with what seems basic coding capability very methodically build some really nice software. This is because they are very focused on the "end" not the "means". You see t…

Been programming for 10 years and it's distressing how inadequate and incompetent I sometimes feel. I like to rebuff it as Impostor's syndrome, but who knows, may be I am just bad and surviving because mediocrity is what the industry wants.

On the other hand, the pleasure that a good piece of code in a beautiful software gives is something I can perhaps relate to an opiate high (as a metaphor, never tried honestly :) )

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#85

Post by keyboardhitter »

MollyR wrote: post #45

I'm training my nephew, he's living with me while going to college in the philadelphia. He's been getting really frustrated hearing platitudes like this from his professors. I've basically been mentoring him and having him read https://github.com/braydie/HowToBeAProgrammer , Comp Science with Python, and a couple books on linux and C to help with some lower level stuff. He's been struggling a lot with C and Linux con…

I agree that it would help with a better understanding. I can't help but wonder why aspiring sysadmins and programmers DO NOT have immediate interest in such things? To me it just 'made sense' and 'clicked' almost immediately. Maybe I learned from a different angle, but it seems obvious to me to want to learn these things (C and Linux fundamentals, I mean).

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#86

Post by keyboardhitter »

jnordwick wrote: post #70

Simplicity. And when you think you have a good simple plan of attack, simplify more. I have rarely had problems from being too simple, and when you do they are easy to fix, but over complication (over generifying) is always a beast to fix.

I agree with this, the simplest solution is often the best, and then work on it until it is elegant. In the visual arts, i use the same line of thought when i am turning a sketch into a full painting, for comparison.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#87

Post by kazinator »

abc_lisper wrote: post #68
leshow wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I have an alternate intuition. Humans are only able to understand anything through decomposition to smaller problems, working out those problems, then recomposing to a whole again. This is evident not just in software development, but in everything. At some point you have to ask yourself: If this "decomposition" hammer is the only tool we have to use in the world, it's no surprise that everything looks l…

> At some point you have to ask yourself: If this "decomposition" hammer is the only tool we have to use in the world, it's no surprise that everything looks like a nail. Agreed! I think this is why it was not intuitive to me. I was (reasonably) good at math in school, but I never tried to decompose the problem. I always tried to get a feel of the problem by looking at it from various angles and get the crux of the p…

That makes sense. The thing about decomposition is that there is more than one (a toolbox with multiple hammers). So even if you decompose, you have to look at multiple angles before you choose a decomposition.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#88

Post by rumcajz »

keithnz wrote: post #40

Well, I've been programming 30+ years..... I think one of the main things that makes a good programmer is someone who cares about the final product. Ironically this doesn't necessarily mean you have to be super good at writing code. I have seen people with what seems basic coding capability very methodically build some really nice software. This is because they are very focused on the "end" not the "means". You see t…

I call it honesty. To be a good programmer you have to be honest about what you are doing. Smarts won't help.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#89

Post by rumcajz »

lightedman wrote: post #80

I wish everyone were forced to program everything on a machine with the resources of a Pentium I-class processor and say 64MB RAM. Learn to conserve your resources, learn to eschew that which is not needed, and for crying out loud learn to not write bloated stuff. Even today, most programs I use on Windows 7 were written back in the days of Windows 95/98 and they still work faster than any current modern implementati…

Every programmer should be given ZX81 with 1kB of memory to start with.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#90

Post by tunesmith »

optimuspaul wrote: post #38
TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

My personal advice would be to follow the Ira Glass quote: > Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still kil…

This nails it in my opinion. Too often I see people assume that programming/coding is somehow science based. It's not really, it's an art and you need to be a creative person to be good at it. The science comes later (sometimes never for some).

I graduated with a music degree and have been a professional programmer for twenty years... I have honestly never really seen programming as an art. Not in that sense. It's got some elements in common with different kinds of music, like how you choose to make it balanced and cohesive I guess, but to me it's kind of a pale shade of musical artistry.

If you're performing, it requires you to tap into some sort of "being in the moment" type of flow that is almost the opposite of deep-programming flow. You have to be aware of the present moment while also interacting with the present moment. Getting "into the zone" while programming, if applied to performing music, is a great way to lose listeners. And if you're performing with others, you'll screw up the ensemble.

If creating/writing, music requires a kind of delving-for-inspiration I almost never have to do while programming. Early 2016 I had to solve a programming problem that didn't fit any previous patterns and wasn't googleable, and I solved that in a kind of lateral-thinking flash of inspiration, so that's somewhat close, but it's still rare compared to normal programming practice... and even then, in programming those flashes are less personal.

Programming is enjoyable in the sense that it's like both solving puzzles/problems and sometimes tending a zen rock garden. You think, you solve, you clean. And to a degree, you express. I don't really think that clears the bar of artistic, but it is manifestation and it is satisfying and it is sometimes personal so that's good too.

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