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Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

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Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#151

Post by hexane360 »

jacobolus wrote: post #123
PerryCox wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe he is mad that his psychiatrist is not doing academic research, but instead mad that he is not listening to his claims about smoking having a benefit to his mental illness.

Not just psychiatrists. A significant proportion of M.D.s of all subspecialties are surprisingly uncurious and unwilling to listen seriously to patient symptom reports (even detailed reports of careful observations), whenever anything doesn’t match their narrow past experience. Instead of admitting they just haven’t seen anything similar before or suggesting ways to follow up with research literature etc., doctors of…

Or maybe the doctors are rational, and patients are just generally less reliable than medical authorities are. Additionally, it's very hard to tell reliable patients from unreliable patients, and personal bias ends up playing a huge role.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#152

Post by chillwaves »

SparkyMcUnicorn wrote: post #111
brianpgordon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but being healthier than smoking is not exactly a high bar. If you must take nicotine as a nootropic, take it orally. Vaping is much more addictive than letting a 2mg lozenge slowly dissolve. Relative addictiveness of different ROAs is directly correlated with how quickly the drug takes effect, and when you vape the nicotine hits your bloodstream within seconds. Also I can't mention enough that if you take an M…

You can vape with no nicotine at all, or you can vape from 0.1mg/ml all the way past 50mg/ml if you wanted to. "Vaping is much more addictive" is like saying sugar is more addicting from a glass of chocolate milk than than it is from a bag of gummy worms. And I'd say 95% healthier is a pretty good margin.

You should understand that different drug delivery methods will have different impacts on a drug's half life and effect (intensity) on your body. Inhaling is more powerful than taking orally. Shooting up is more powerful than inhaling.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#153

Post by beambot »

notarealdoctor wrote: post #107
beambot wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your psychiatrist runs a practice and you're mad that they are practicing rather than researching ? That seems like an unrealistic expectation. If your doc was doing more research, then they probably wouldn't be practicing as much. It's like asking you to be a professional developer and do cutting edge CS research -- that's pretty rare. Tracking nicotine vs your mood strikes me as being "research" -- especially since…

> Your psychiatrist runs a practice and you're mad that they are practicing rather than researching? I just write code and I have to research stuff, why oh why would mental health professionals not be required to do so?

There's a big difference between "reading research papers" and "doing research." The former is expected. The latter generally is not. Most professional computer scientists do not write peer-reviewed papers in top academic journals during the course of normal professional development. (There's a big difference!)

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#154

Post by jayd16 »

agentgt wrote: post #122
anigbrowl wrote: post #48

“This defines a completely novel strategy for medication development,” says lead author As someone with schizoaffective problems and raging ADHD, I find quotes like this acutely annoying. I've told every psychiatrist I'eve ever dealt with about the experiential costs/benefits of smoking (and consuming various other recreational drugs). They all nod sagely and say things like 'but smoking is bad' (no shit Sherlock!) w…

I have never been addicted to cigarettes and do not smoke but I do chew nicotine gum all the time for ADD (and yes there is a difference between ADHD and ADD). I took me a while to figure out that nicotine is a superior stimulant over caffeine, adderall, ritalin and even chocolate extract (albeit chocolate was surprisingly effective). The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above…

>The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above stimulants have.

What do you mean by this? Caffeine withdrawal over nicotine withdrawal seems like a no brainer to me with what I've seen from smokers, but I don't smoke so I can't say first hand.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#155

Post by agentgt »

sova wrote: post #150
agentgt wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried a bunch of supplements and herbs. Some worked, some had nasty side effects, and most did squat. The short list is I tried: Piractem, GABA, Rhodila Rosea, Cocamine (chocolate extract), gluractone (red bull ingredient), various ephedrine like stuff, various methly caffeine things (ie green tea), Yohimbine (I highly recommend you never ever take this). I used to have lab like jars of the stuff at work and my cow…

In regards to Yohimbine, I'll heed your experienced words should I ever come across, I won't partake. Wow, just googling it: "It is a veterinary drug used to reverse sedation in dogs and deer." It's interesting that you can basically reap all the benefits of nicotine without any of the carcinogens. Do you feel at all like it's difficult to step away from? I really like your list of "nothing worked better than ~" it m…

> It's interesting that you can basically reap all the benefits of nicotine without any of the carcinogens. Do you feel at all like it's difficult to step away from?

I have a somewhat armchair biologist theory (based on anecdotes and light research) that much of addiction is based on genetics, social, and timing. I wasn't exposed to nicotine during my formative years and thus (just guessing) that I do not feel any addiction what so ever to nicotine (if it isn't nicotine but tobacco that causes it I have smoked cigars so I have done the raw stuff as well).

That being said I almost cannot go a night with out having one or two drinks and I have to have my morning coffee. I really wish I could stop drinking alcohol (calorie reasons) but I like beer and wine so much for the taste.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#156

Post by rikelmens »

tsomctl wrote: post #60
losteric wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just MJ for everything

If you can recommend a strain that helps with ADHD while still allowing you to be alert and cognizant, I would really like to know. I've been looking for years.

Try TrueOG.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#157

Post by pyre »

jayd16 wrote: post #154
agentgt wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been addicted to cigarettes and do not smoke but I do chew nicotine gum all the time for ADD (and yes there is a difference between ADHD and ADD). I took me a while to figure out that nicotine is a superior stimulant over caffeine, adderall, ritalin and even chocolate extract (albeit chocolate was surprisingly effective). The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above…

>The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above stimulants have. What do you mean by this? Caffeine withdrawal over nicotine withdrawal seems like a no brainer to me with what I've seen from smokers, but I don't smoke so I can't say first hand.

I think that @agentgt was talking about "coming down" from the high (or effects of the drug), and not withdrawal symptoms.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#158

Post by rtpg »

agentgt wrote: post #122
anigbrowl wrote: post #48

“This defines a completely novel strategy for medication development,” says lead author As someone with schizoaffective problems and raging ADHD, I find quotes like this acutely annoying. I've told every psychiatrist I'eve ever dealt with about the experiential costs/benefits of smoking (and consuming various other recreational drugs). They all nod sagely and say things like 'but smoking is bad' (no shit Sherlock!) w…

I have never been addicted to cigarettes and do not smoke but I do chew nicotine gum all the time for ADD (and yes there is a difference between ADHD and ADD). I took me a while to figure out that nicotine is a superior stimulant over caffeine, adderall, ritalin and even chocolate extract (albeit chocolate was surprisingly effective). The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above…

As another ADD-diagnosed person, my understanding is the current consensus is that ADD is simply a different manifestation of ADHD. That is to say, same underlying root cause, so treatment can be similar.

Didn't know about the nicotine angle though, kind of interested in the research on this.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#159

Post by HeavenBanned »

SparkyMcUnicorn wrote: post #145
chipperyman573 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's better doesn't mean it's good. Inhaling large amounts of steam or smoke is bad for your lungs, even if it doesn't contain any carcinogens. Also, nicotine is addictive, so taking it "just because" is a bad idea (taking it to treat something is a different story, obviously). Of course, if you're looking to intake nicotine for some reason, vaping is vastly superior to smoking. "5 people killed in riot"…

Yes, nothing is better than breathing fresh air. 100% agree. That being said.. people are going to do it anyways. Sugar, caffeine, McDonalds, and hundreds of other things on the list that are not great for you but people do anyways. If people are going to do it, why not choose the healthiest way to do it?

>healthiest

How about "less harmful" ? I think that's a better way to describe it.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#160

Post by beambot »

samirillian wrote: post #134
beambot wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your psychiatrist runs a practice and you're mad that they are practicing rather than researching ? That seems like an unrealistic expectation. If your doc was doing more research, then they probably wouldn't be practicing as much. It's like asking you to be a professional developer and do cutting edge CS research -- that's pretty rare. Tracking nicotine vs your mood strikes me as being "research" -- especially since…

They're called analysts for a reason, their daily work is much closer to research than refactoring code for yet another form-based web app. Humans seem to innately require a kind of redemptive soteriology. For many cultures, this was the role of the shaman/medicine man. Insofar as therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists now fill that niche, it would seem right that they offer the analysand new/fruitful/exploratory pos…

Indeed, therapy / psychology / psychiatry are the closest analogs to modern-day shamanism -- and there's a lot of room for improvement.

Unfortunately, those fields are bound by professional regulations that prevent "experimentation". Which makes the difference between diagnosis & treatment -vs- research pretty clearly defined. The latter has vastly different requirements (eg. double-blind studies, IRB approvals, etc, etc).

I think it's a perfectly reasonable state of affairs to have psychiatrists sit somewhere on the "practice research" spectrum. Don't like that your psychiatrist sits on the practice part of the scale? Find a different provider.

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