Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy • Hacker News Board

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#61

Post by qwrusz » Sun, Jan 22, 2017, 11:15 PM UTC

keytapper wrote: post #52

qwrusz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you like to know? I read your comment and I think you pretty much get the gist of it, but if you have q's about how private equity (PE) works in this situation I'm happy to try to answer. As for this deal. First it was 10+ years so feel free to call bullshit on my memory but it felt like amateur hours as if SL/TPG let their new MBA hires run it or people just screwed up when structuring the deal and unsurp…

Great, thanks for your response. You sounds like someone who is on au fait with these kinds of deals so I'll ask you your opinion on who were the winners and losers here. So, presumably TPG lose what ever the initially put in now that it has hit the wall. Does that mean that they will have lost money over the course of the investment or would they have found a way to slowly extract money from the quite reasonable rev…

Honestly, I don't know enough details and the Chapter 11 process needs to play out still, so I think it's to soon to really say who were the winners and losers here. Also it depends how you want to define winners and losers. Well the lawyers are the winners for sure, but as for other parties it is tbd.

As for info on where TPG and your debt holders stand, along with other details on what the hell is going on, it should be mostly publicly available. SEC's Edgar is where I would start to look and a multi-page google search session should find other stray legal documents.

Here is your Edgar page: https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&C...

Also here is a Bloomberg article from last year when the shit hit the fan while eating spicy food from a dirty foodtruck, the article has some names of who owned the debt and who represents them and what your bonds were trading at (even back then it was already 28 cents on the dollar, Oy)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-08/avaya-sai...

I don't know nor can I predict if there will be large layoffs. You work there, so hopefully you know.

It should not "seem like common knowledge" how much KK is getting paid, it should be common knowledge, this is publicly available information. Click on that Edgar link above, the info is in there. Look at the 10-K forms the company filed they disclose executive compensation.

Other questions like what will happen to leadership or how will ownership of the company change or what assets may need to be sold, this is all part of the Chapter 11 process.

Unfortunately, and despite popular opinion, people on Wall St cannot predict the future ;). I don't know why CNBC and WSJ keep asking investors and economists what they think will happen, these shmuks have no fucking clue. So my apologies, but I just don't know how this will play out. But Chapter 11 is quite a public process so you can follow it as it happens.

If you are unfamiliar with how Chapter 11 works, the Planet Money radio show/podcast did a story on Ch.11 that was pretty good. Here it is: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/05/437628996/episo...

One more thing on the winners and losers. Sometimes a company can go down and there are no big winners or big losers. Not by how I would define a loser here. I am sure TPG and Avaya bondholders wished things had turned out better on this investment. But they made an active investment decision, in a risky company, as part of a diversified portfolio of multiple bets similar (well hopefully). The portfolio overall also hopefully isn't losing money even when one of the deals turns out to be a dud. Companies can go down even when giving a 100% honest effort to improve it. Look at VCs and startups, some/most startups in the VC's portfolio inevitably fail, are these companies and their VCs losers? If people are fully informed on the risk and rewards, and nothing was taken away, then the founders, employees and investors knew they were taking a risk when they signed up.

My main concern when I read news stories like this is if people were lied to, or misled or company directors & officers did not act in good faith while making decisions when running the company. Being dumb still not a crime on its own. But if a company's D&O put their employees pensions on the line while enriching themselves, or if management mislead employees and small investors about the health of the company/their efforts to fix the company's problems while really planning their own exit behind the scenes - that's fucking disgusting and it may be a crime (and if it was a crime send their asses to jail plus a lawsuit to clawback their BS gains).

I don't know how this will play out but if I worked there I would for sure be looking for another job asap as part of the uncertainty of who, what, where over the next few weeks in Ch.11. Good luck.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#62

Post by dv35z » Sun, Jan 22, 2017, 11:16 PM UTC

pramsky wrote: post #40

dv35z wrote: post #37

A bit off-topic, but a call-out to those tech consultants who often work remotely (using VOIP to interface with POTS): At the previous tech company I worked at, we used Avaya VOIP phones (5000+ employees). The phones could be used at home (with a remote access point - RAP - plugged into your router). One thing that always impressed me was just how clear, crisp, and low-latency the audio was for VOIP. I'd pick up the…

I work for a hosted VoIP company. >> it was great having a perfect call connection anywhere there is decent internet. Thats the catch. The internet service has to be good enough for VoIP. Many times, having the right router is key. >> I'd pick up the handset and the dial-tone was immediately there; As long as the handset thinks its registered, dial tone will be immediate. As far as the Ooma experience goes, if you ca…

Thanks for replying! When I had the Avaya phone, in most all locations & conditions, if there was decent (e.g. a non-tech person's home in latin america, an apartment in London, a residential cable modem in turkey) - the call was crystal clear. Meanwhile, Skype, Google Voice, Viber, and even WebEx sounded cloudy. I always wanted to know what the "secret sauce" was that allowed this device (or the company-hosted server behind it) to have this quality.

Regarding Ooma, I have the portable handset here: http://www.ooma.com/telo/

And I bought the headset (which connects to the base station as another phone, rather TO the phone. The process to simply dial a number and use the headset is comically complicated to "join" the calls...)

If you have any specific advice for this setup, I'd be appreciative. Likewise, if you have other recommendations for solutions, I'm all ears. Thanks again!

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#63

Post by smcl » Sun, Jan 22, 2017, 11:45 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #49

revelation wrote: post #28

They took a huge loan, bought the company and funneled its "profits" to the loan and now it's bankrupt? How is that legal?

That is the basis of the private equity industry. Sometimes there's more cashflow than they expected so the firm doesn't go belly-up before they can peddle it, but that's not because PE dudes are any good at running a business. It's just as common to get less cashflow than they expected, and have the whole thing collapse without paying them. In a previous life I got a close-up view of Carlyle attempting this with a f…

"... only to discover that Verizon can put short pants on crooked business execs"

This phrase interests me - what does it mean? Like they can dress them down, or make them look foolish?

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#64

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 3:49 AM UTC

smcl wrote: post #63

jessaustin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the basis of the private equity industry. Sometimes there's more cashflow than they expected so the firm doesn't go belly-up before they can peddle it, but that's not because PE dudes are any good at running a business. It's just as common to get less cashflow than they expected, and have the whole thing collapse without paying them. In a previous life I got a close-up view of Carlyle attempting this with a f…

"... only to discover that Verizon can put short pants on crooked business execs" This phrase interests me - what does it mean? Like they can dress them down, or make them look foolish?

It means that compared to Verizon crooked execs, Carlyle crooked execs were like children, who were new to the game of being crooked executives. (Traditionally it was children who wore short pants.)

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#65

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 5:22 AM UTC

dv35z wrote: post #37

A bit off-topic, but a call-out to those tech consultants who often work remotely (using VOIP to interface with POTS): At the previous tech company I worked at, we used Avaya VOIP phones (5000+ employees). The phones could be used at home (with a remote access point - RAP - plugged into your router). One thing that always impressed me was just how clear, crisp, and low-latency the audio was for VOIP. I'd pick up the…

Try a Polycom. You can usually get good deals on used phones.

Ultimately, the quality mostly depends on who is running the voip system. I have a fancy pants Cisco phone on my desk with a premium headset that combined costs as much as a nice laptop. But it sounds like a turd, because our network folks want to save precious bandwidth. The phone itself can do HD audio and all sorts of fancy things.

The headset is easy -- just spend more. Find a Jabra or Polycom that integrates with your phones hook and volume controls. Good ones are $200. The one I have has ridiculously long range and good sound.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#66

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 5:23 AM UTC

yardie wrote: post #54

Periodic wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised how much, as consumers, people will put up with in terms of bad audio. I think cell phones really helped lower the bar when the connections were bad but the mobility was unrivaled. I used to hate calling someone's cell phone because the land-line was generally crystal clear and responsive. Granted, things have improved a lot over the last 10 years, both in cell phones and internet calling. However, vide…

Mobile audio is awful because we are oversubscribed. My first mobile was a CDMA PCS phone. My first call on it was for a date. My date assumed I was calling from home on a land line. I was at her front door. The audio was so clean it was indistinguishable from a landline. Later on, as CDMA phones grew in popularity, the multiplexing grew and the bandwidth shrank. Also codecs got more efficient by flattening the audio…

That's the beauty of FaceTime Audio. Awesome quality, as long as you aren't driving. Unfortunately, only ,y wife and I seem to use it!

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#67

Post by smcl » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 11:37 AM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #64

smcl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... only to discover that Verizon can put short pants on crooked business execs" This phrase interests me - what does it mean? Like they can dress them down, or make them look foolish?

It means that compared to Verizon crooked execs, Carlyle crooked execs were like children, who were new to the game of being crooked executives. (Traditionally it was children who wore short pants.)

Wow ok, thanks :) I hadn't considered that

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#68

Post by ascagnel_ » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 2:00 PM UTC

Periodic wrote: post #39

dv35z wrote: post #37

A bit off-topic, but a call-out to those tech consultants who often work remotely (using VOIP to interface with POTS): At the previous tech company I worked at, we used Avaya VOIP phones (5000+ employees). The phones could be used at home (with a remote access point - RAP - plugged into your router). One thing that always impressed me was just how clear, crisp, and low-latency the audio was for VOIP. I'd pick up the…

I'm surprised how much, as consumers, people will put up with in terms of bad audio. I think cell phones really helped lower the bar when the connections were bad but the mobility was unrivaled. I used to hate calling someone's cell phone because the land-line was generally crystal clear and responsive. Granted, things have improved a lot over the last 10 years, both in cell phones and internet calling. However, vide…

> I'm surprised how much, as consumers, people will put up with in terms of bad audio. I think cell phones really helped lower the bar when the connections were bad but the mobility was unrivaled. I used to hate calling someone's cell phone because the land-line was generally crystal clear and responsive.

VoLTE has been rolling out (slowly) over the past few years, but has hit a human-based stumbling block. People now expect background noise on phone calls, and may mistake its absence for a signal that the call has been dropped.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#69

Post by yardie » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #66

yardie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile audio is awful because we are oversubscribed. My first mobile was a CDMA PCS phone. My first call on it was for a date. My date assumed I was calling from home on a land line. I was at her front door. The audio was so clean it was indistinguishable from a landline. Later on, as CDMA phones grew in popularity, the multiplexing grew and the bandwidth shrank. Also codecs got more efficient by flattening the audio…

That's the beauty of FaceTime Audio. Awesome quality, as long as you aren't driving. Unfortunately, only ,y wife and I seem to use it!

I use FT Audio and whatsapp as well. FT calls are answerable right away while Whatsapp calls have a whole process: swipe, unlock, find app, open app. By the time I get in my Whatsapp caller has given up. 10 seconds later they'll make a normal cellphone call.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#70

Post by kimi » Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #16

fenesiistvan wrote: post #6

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

It's true that open source can replace some PBX functionality. There are though, operations that require scale or functionality that either doesn't exist, or isn't quite bulletproof in the open source world. SS7 connectivity, geographically spread call centers, priority queuing based on multiple concurrent data sources, drag-drop complex IVR software, natural language parsing, natural language generation, contextual…

Or use a hosted QueueMetrics cluster with Asterisk and a little bit of scripting to connect the dots. It costs a small fraction and gets you most of the functionality.