Closures in Java 7: Not Likely • Hacker News Board

Re: Closures in Java 7: Not Likely

#21

Post by jshen » Thu, May 13, 2010, 6:22 AM UTC

justlearning wrote: post #16

jshen wrote: post #4

This highlights the difference between open and open. java is technically open source, yet the decisions are made behind closed doors without any transparency.

" yet the decisions are made behind closed doors without any transparency" care to explain who are these decision makers? Given the JSR and other process, curious to know who makes these hidden decisions.

Take closures for example. We were told they weren't going into java 7. Then at that one presentation on fork/join we were suddenly told they were going in. There was never much explanation behind the bipolar decision making.

This is not transparency, it's the whims of a small cabal.

Re: Closures in Java 7: Not Likely

#22

Post by francoisdevlin » Thu, May 13, 2010, 5:43 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #5

Zarkonnen wrote: post #3

Speaking as someone whose current long-term main project is Java-based: Java's development has stalled. Go and learn Scala, Clojure, Python, Haskell, . (Note that is not to say that you need to abandon whatever Java you're working on, just that Java's pain points getting fixed looks very unlikely.)

Working on it. But it's the steepest learning curve since I learned to program the first time. It almost feels as though already being able to program is actually a hindrance.

Take a look here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1033503

Re: Closures in Java 7: Not Likely

#23

Post by jshen » Thu, May 13, 2010, 11:09 PM UTC

redstripe wrote: post #14

jshen wrote: post #4

This highlights the difference between open and open. java is technically open source, yet the decisions are made behind closed doors without any transparency.

And the standard open source response is "fork it". Are you prevented from building your own java with closure support and distributing it? When ubuntu recently altered where window icons appear there was a lot of complaining even though linux is "open". Someone is in charge of all "open" projects and likely whatever decisions they make will upset some people.

"Are you prevented from building your own java with closure support and distributing it?"

I really hate this smug answer. At best it's naive.

Practically speaking I am prevented from doing that. I have two small children and a full time job. This leaves very little time for productive coding. Also, my expertise is not in VM implementation and design. I'm sure I could learn that stuff if I put my mind to it, if only I had a lot of free time which I don't.

Having said that, a real open source project is built around a community. Typically the community wants to have some visibility into the decision making process, and that simply isn't happening with the jvm imo. I don't think it's too much to ask of them to be open about an issue like closures rather than swinging from one side to the other seemingly at the whim of a few people without any explanation.