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Don't Be a Free User (2011)

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Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#51

Post by slgeorge »

dkyc wrote: post #22
nerdponx wrote: post #14

This is why web services should be open source and available for self hosting: - The geeks with the know-how to run a Web server benefit from your product for free, but in exchange you get bug reports, patches, etc. - Everyone else pays, because you also offer a paid hosting option. But because the product is fundamentally open source and federated, it can and hopefully will outlive its original developer.

My experience running a project/company like you describe: 1) Not the geeks, but the big multinational companies with disposable developer time end up using your open-source solution. Exactly the types of users I don't feel sorry for and would rather extract money from. 2) The "payback" in the form of bug reports and patches is negligible, because nobody likes to do work if they're not being compensated (either throu…

I can't see why any free software user would consider it unreasonable to charge for delivery of a service as long as the source code for the service is freely available. There's nothing in the FSF / OSI that says anyone is entitled to free operation of software!

There are consumer orientated services like Newsblur (http://newsblur.com) that do this. There are business orientated services such as SugarCRM (https://www.sugarcrm.com/) that do this.

SaaS is the likely saviour of "commercial" open source.

That said - yes users are unreasonable! All users, all the time. Whether it's open source or otherwise. Unfortunately, lots of open source users think the giving up of their time to report a problem means it should be solved, and they can't do it. The only thing I can offer is that it tells you how important what you created has become to them - think of it as a reverse compliment!

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#52

Post by 0xCMP »

Raed667 wrote: post #23

These arguments fall apart when you're living in a country with no access to online, international payment methods. And I realize that you don't want to bother with people that are not currently potential customers, but I'm just saying that you're locking entire countries out.

So it needs ads then? Or it needs to be self hosted? What's the alternative for someone to build a business on the internet like pinboard does?

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#53

Post by freehunter »

a3n wrote: post #37

I pay for pinboard, for exactly this reason. I like it enough that I want it to be there tomorrow. Same with LastPass, Fastmail (don't know if they still have free accounts), The Guardian and The NYT. There is much, much more of the web that I use for free, either because they have their own reasons for for not charging at all, or they appear to have enough of a paying base that I'm merely small-guilty but not worrie…

I agree with what you're saying, but I stopped paying for the NYT for similar reasons. My subscription isn't enough to keep them in business, so either I'm not paying enough or they're wasting my money.

If I pay for something that I could have easily and legally gotten for free and then it's plastered in ads, either charge me more or revisit your business model. I want to see them stay around, yes, but I wasn't getting the value for my money that I expected to get.

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#54

Post by Michie »

devoply wrote: post #18
akjainaj wrote: post #10

I am a proud free user. When a service closes because of bankruptcy, a new one always appears. Or maybe two or three. So who cares? There's always a free alternative to every service, especially web ones.

Thank you Mr. Locust, that will do.

@devoply, I think the best term to describe akjainaj is a parasite. A parasite is an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

Based from his response here, I think he is just a troll.

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#56

Post by hedora »

Raed667 wrote: post #23

These arguments fall apart when you're living in a country with no access to online, international payment methods. And I realize that you don't want to bother with people that are not currently potential customers, but I'm just saying that you're locking entire countries out.

One approach is to get some small percentage of users to pay, and use the rest to lock the minority in (like craigslist, linkedin recruiters).

Figuring out the right scheme (and one that crosses borders) isn't easy though.

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#57

Post by devoply »

Michie wrote: post #54
devoply wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you Mr. Locust, that will do.

@devoply, I think the best term to describe akjainaj is a parasite. A parasite is an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. Based from his response here, I think he is just a troll.

He has a point, consumer psychology is set up this way. As entrepreneurs we have to understand it and deal with it.

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#58

Post by akjainaj »

Michie wrote: post #54
devoply wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you Mr. Locust, that will do.

@devoply, I think the best term to describe akjainaj is a parasite. A parasite is an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. Based from his response here, I think he is just a troll.

I don't see how I'm trolling here.

For example, I run Spotify with an ad blocker, so I don't have to pay for it. And years ago, when they limited the amount of minutes of music you could listen to every month, I made tons of accounts to bypass that limitation. Why? Because, in the unlikely case they go out of business, by then some other service would've appeared, run by someone who thinks he won't commit the same mistakes the owners of the previous service made.

Common sense says my system of abandoning/taking services is not sustainable in the long term, but by now it hasn't failed me. And I'm also sure a sizable percent of people do the same I do. Am I a troll just because I'm open about it?

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#59

Post by hedora »

dkyc wrote: post #22
nerdponx wrote: post #14

This is why web services should be open source and available for self hosting: - The geeks with the know-how to run a Web server benefit from your product for free, but in exchange you get bug reports, patches, etc. - Everyone else pays, because you also offer a paid hosting option. But because the product is fundamentally open source and federated, it can and hopefully will outlive its original developer.

My experience running a project/company like you describe: 1) Not the geeks, but the big multinational companies with disposable developer time end up using your open-source solution. Exactly the types of users I don't feel sorry for and would rather extract money from. 2) The "payback" in the form of bug reports and patches is negligible, because nobody likes to do work if they're not being compensated (either throu…

I think the Busines Source License has cleanly solved this dilemma:

http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2016/08/applying-business-sou...

Free as in Freedom but not free as in beer.

You get to use the software for free subect to limitations (can't have more than N users, can't resell hosted access, etc), until N years from now, when the license reverts to GPL. Point releases restart the clock (so you have to fork the N year old version if Oracle acquired the company).

I'd be interested in a variant that reverts to BSD, but maybe that can't work for some reason. I haven't thought too hard about it.

Re: Don't Be a Free User (2011)

#60

Post by omegaham »

anondon wrote: post #36
moolcool wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think of HN like a product meant to make money though, more like a big ad for YC

> more like a big ad for YC That is dumbing HN down a lot. This community is much more than that: hackers share cool articles, have vibrant discussions and the comments section is probably the least toxic of all comments sections. YC related posts are very popular and YC itself is promoted heavily, but the community is much more than just YC.

I think the point he's making is that its business purpose is advertising for YC. Come for the discussion, and if you happen to have an idea, YC is the first thing in your mind that pops into place when you think, "How can I get this off the ground?"

Hell, as a casual user and a corporate employee, YC is the only startup incubator that I know of.

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