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Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

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Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#11

Post by TheCustos »

nicholas73 wrote: post #6
gt565k wrote: post #4

Please tell me you didn't share your previous salary with HR :) Also 8 vs 10 years of experience is not a significant difference so that HR can BS you. They are moving quick on you because you're a solid candidate, and they are trying to close quick. Don't let HR BS you, once you get an offer, counter them at 10-20% of where you want to be, or simply give them a range that you feel comfortable with. You are the scarc…

I did share, despite being on HN. This was because my previous employers did verify my previous salaries, with one demanding a paystub prior to offer. I also met with HR prior to meeting the division head (he had to switch to last), so I was nervous about making a negative impression on site. It was a mistake, I know, but I thought I could just negotiate it back up since Glassdoor has made information public.

When HR brings up past salary as a justification for an existing offer, simply bring up that salaries are only a component of compensation and overall engagement. Tell them that you respect their viewpoint and understand whatever decision they come to, but you don't believe their offer matches your current market value.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#12

Post by TheCustos »

nicholas73 wrote: post #8
akulbe wrote: post #5

The other thing to consider... don't only negotiate for money part of the salary. Think of vacation time, and other perks as well.

Thanks, I might try to get the title back after the final number is done.

Don't address one item and then move to another. Be upfront about all of your concerns at once. If I moved up on salary and then had a prospect re-counter on title, I'd pull the offer.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#13

Post by bsvalley »

If it's in the bay area I'd say just give your number, they'll do something. An offer is an offer... It's like buying a car, they give their offer and you give yours until it works out. I've done it so many times.

Though, the base salary is the hardest thing to negotiate. A lot of companies won't change that number no matter how good you are, because they try to maintain their employees within the same bracket and avoid any frictions between people. Simply by asking I got double sign-on, more RSU's, etc. But from experience if it's not a google or one of the big 5, then they won't bump up the base salary. So you should target sign-on and RSU's/stock/options.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#14

Post by dozzie »

gt565k wrote: post #4

Please tell me you didn't share your previous salary with HR :) Also 8 vs 10 years of experience is not a significant difference so that HR can BS you. They are moving quick on you because you're a solid candidate, and they are trying to close quick. Don't let HR BS you, once you get an offer, counter them at 10-20% of where you want to be, or simply give them a range that you feel comfortable with. You are the scarc…

> [...] give them a range that you feel comfortable with.

A side note: I don't get why providing a range is of any benefit, and I'm not talking about this particular situation. I wouldn't expect the other side to offer the top bracket if they know that I would accept the position for the lower bracket (I wouldn't specify the unacceptable lower bracket salary). What is in the setting that I don't see?

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#15

Post by rvpolyak »

Being an HR professional I would never ask for pay stubs to confirm someone's wages. What you are being paid is really non of there business. I always ensure that our Total compensation model is comparable to the industry and will work with the candidate to get them something we both can agree on.

I honestly wouldn't want to work for a company like that.

Also if your looking at even considering a counteroffer form your current employer don't!!! If they value you as an employee they should not wait for you to resign to counter with more money.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#16

Post by brown-dragon »

I found this advice on negotiating to be most helpful:

1. Always stay polite. Getting emotional works against you in most cases.

2. Don't give ultimatums. Saying "I want this and this" is fine - don't add "or else...".

3. In your current situation, you have lost some negotiating leverage (your previous salary, your experience) but it's not unsalvageable. Simply bring them up and counter them yourself:

* Your previous salary is not relevant - only what you want to accept now. HR has a desire to lowball you so you should counter with a higher-than-market request.

* Your experience is not an issue. If they want you for the job then you are qualified for the salary that job entails.

4. Use the fact that you are _already_ giving them something by accepting an offer one level below! Make this a big deal and ask for compensation for doing a higher level job.

5. Pick a price that is 10% above market value and have a list of reasons you want it (new house, car, ...). Do not be afraid to stick to your ask. After all, they need you to do the job just as much as you need their job.

6. When picking a number do not pick a round number (numbers like 30% sound like you have not given it much thought. Numbers like 101,300/- sound like you have figured out your finances and have a good reason for your ask).

7. Be patient and remember you both want something out of this.

Good luck!

Edit: The Lightning Guide to Software Resumes has a short section on negotiating that is a good summary. A better book is "Never split the difference" by Chris Voss which is, I think, the best book on the subject.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#17

Post by lancewiggs »

Go up. If they are offering under market then consider pushing for higher than your baseline/benchmark. You only get one chance to start a new job and you don't want to be pissed off when you do. Tell them that anything less than X will be demotivational. If they are being unreasonable then so should you. And just be hardline about the level.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#18

Post by rpod »

gt565k wrote: post #4

Please tell me you didn't share your previous salary with HR :) Also 8 vs 10 years of experience is not a significant difference so that HR can BS you. They are moving quick on you because you're a solid candidate, and they are trying to close quick. Don't let HR BS you, once you get an offer, counter them at 10-20% of where you want to be, or simply give them a range that you feel comfortable with. You are the scarc…

Just wondering, how would you respond when being asked about your previous salary? I'm asking because I'm currently in negotiation with some companies, and being asked for your previous salary seems to be common practice.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#20

Post by jaclaz »

If I may, and this is a general consideration, not necessarily applying to this specific case, there is often a "mislabeling" of seniority as "experience".

They are not the same thing.

Now explaining that to a HR might be an issue, but while it is clear that two years are different from ten, eight years in a given role/position in a "dynamic" firm - possibly a small one where you have to deal with a multitude of different problems - might be equivalent (or at least it is equivalent in my mind) to fifteen or more years in a big firm/highly structured multinational where the same role/position revolves around doing only what is on the paper.

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