Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

backchannel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 76 posts

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#41

Post by ansible »

jeff_petersen wrote: post #35
ansible wrote: post #15

The problem with interstellar travel in general is that it is so expensive, in terms of energy usage. I speculate that even for Kardashev type 3 civilizations, shipping matter around will be impractical. The future is software. For entities that live purely as software, and aren't so picky as us meatbags are about continuity of consciousness, "traveling" from place to place by sending data is the most practical metho…

> The future is software. For entities that live purely as software, and aren't so picky as us meatbags are about continuity of consciousness, "traveling" from place to place by sending data is the most practical method. Sure, but for entities that live purely as software the concept of "being" in a "place" is probably completely unimportant. There's no reason to assume that software entities would have any reason to…

Well, at some point the local system will run out of unclaimed matter and energy (Dyson swarm consuming all output of the local sun, built using all available matter in the system). So if you want to expand, you will have to leave.

There would also be some astronomical phenomenon that aren't easily reproducible locally, so it might be useful to travel to them instead.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#42

Post by marktangotango »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #30
avar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to do faster than light, or even all that fast. The diameter of the Milky Way is at most 200k light years, with technology we could develop today we could populate the entirety of it with generation ships in the span of less than 100 million years, which isn't all that big in the scale of the universe.

I read this, and about ideas like the Von Neumann probe[0] all the time, and it really fills my head with concrete to try and reconcile those ideas with the fact that we haven't found any signs of extraterrestrial life yet. If it's so feasible in a "short" time relative to the age of the universe, where are all the probes? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#Vo...

That's exactly right, nuclear pulse propulsion is all you really need, and that was studied in the 60s with project Orion. The lack of probes is paradoxical i.e. Fermi's paradox (yuk yuk).

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#43

Post by [deleted] »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #30
avar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to do faster than light, or even all that fast. The diameter of the Milky Way is at most 200k light years, with technology we could develop today we could populate the entirety of it with generation ships in the span of less than 100 million years, which isn't all that big in the scale of the universe.

I read this, and about ideas like the Von Neumann probe[0] all the time, and it really fills my head with concrete to try and reconcile those ideas with the fact that we haven't found any signs of extraterrestrial life yet. If it's so feasible in a "short" time relative to the age of the universe, where are all the probes? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#Vo...

[deleted]

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#44

Post by ansible »

metaprinter wrote: post #38
ansible wrote: post #15

The problem with interstellar travel in general is that it is so expensive, in terms of energy usage. I speculate that even for Kardashev type 3 civilizations, shipping matter around will be impractical. The future is software. For entities that live purely as software, and aren't so picky as us meatbags are about continuity of consciousness, "traveling" from place to place by sending data is the most practical metho…

"...so that means firing off a kilogram (or so) of self-replicating molecular nanotechnology which can build the infrastructure you'd want to live in (compute on) at the destination." i just got a chill thinking we are living that exact thing in this simulation O_O

None of that was original, but I read the very best (Vinge, Drexler, Stross, Schroeder).

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#45

Post by wishinghand »

fuhrysteve wrote: post #39
jrv wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read about this all the time, then you're probably also familiar with the Fermi Paradox and the possible explanations for it. 2016 may have given us a clue as to which one of them seems most likely.

Please elaborate? What did we learn in 2016?

There is a star we've observed between 1400 and 1500 light years away with odd, non-cyclical light fluctuations. It may be indicative of a megastructure being built or falling apart around a star.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#46

Post by ansible »

avar wrote: post #21
ansible wrote: post #15

The problem with interstellar travel in general is that it is so expensive, in terms of energy usage. I speculate that even for Kardashev type 3 civilizations, shipping matter around will be impractical. The future is software. For entities that live purely as software, and aren't so picky as us meatbags are about continuity of consciousness, "traveling" from place to place by sending data is the most practical metho…

There's no need to do faster than light, or even all that fast. The diameter of the Milky Way is at most 200k light years, with technology we could develop today we could populate the entirety of it with generation ships in the span of less than 100 million years, which isn't all that big in the scale of the universe.

Software entities may experience reality a million times faster than we do now. Do you want to wait a quadrillion years to finish colonizing the galaxy? That is a really long time.

Also, if you okay more StarCraft, you won't be so relaxed about claiming unoccupied resources.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#47

Post by jeff_petersen »

ansible wrote: post #41
jeff_petersen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The future is software. For entities that live purely as software, and aren't so picky as us meatbags are about continuity of consciousness, "traveling" from place to place by sending data is the most practical method. Sure, but for entities that live purely as software the concept of "being" in a "place" is probably completely unimportant. There's no reason to assume that software entities would have any reason to…

Well, at some point the local system will run out of unclaimed matter and energy (Dyson swarm consuming all output of the local sun, built using all available matter in the system). So if you want to expand, you will have to leave. There would also be some astronomical phenomenon that aren't easily reproducible locally, so it might be useful to travel to them instead.

That is a fair point. Exploration for resources (including non-consumables like hard-to-reproduce phenomena) certainly would still make sense

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#48

Post by rayalez »

metaprinter wrote: post #38
ansible wrote: post #15

The problem with interstellar travel in general is that it is so expensive, in terms of energy usage. I speculate that even for Kardashev type 3 civilizations, shipping matter around will be impractical. The future is software. For entities that live purely as software, and aren't so picky as us meatbags are about continuity of consciousness, "traveling" from place to place by sending data is the most practical metho…

"...so that means firing off a kilogram (or so) of self-replicating molecular nanotechnology which can build the infrastructure you'd want to live in (compute on) at the destination." i just got a chill thinking we are living that exact thing in this simulation O_O

My best argument against living in simulation is similar to the argument against the intlelligent design or solipsism - if you could simulate anytning, why would you simulate this?

So many things in universe make sense if they have happened by accident, but make no sense to include in an intentionally created simulation.

If I would have the power and intelligence to create/simulate a universe, there's no way in hell I would make the world to work like this.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#49

Post by wernercd »

rayalez wrote: post #48
metaprinter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...so that means firing off a kilogram (or so) of self-replicating molecular nanotechnology which can build the infrastructure you'd want to live in (compute on) at the destination." i just got a chill thinking we are living that exact thing in this simulation O_O

My best argument against living in simulation is similar to the argument against the intlelligent design or solipsism - if you could simulate anytning, why would you simulate this ? So many things in universe make sense if they have happened by accident, but make no sense to include in an intentionally created simulation. If I would have the power and intelligence to create/simulate a universe, there's no way in hell…

"if you could simulate anything, why would you simulate this?"

I want to agree... but then... I look at Youtube and wonder why a large portion of that gets made.

With the computing power we have NOW... look at all the stupid stuff that gets made. Imagine 50 years from now.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#50

Post by rayalez »

wernercd wrote: post #49
rayalez wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best argument against living in simulation is similar to the argument against the intlelligent design or solipsism - if you could simulate anytning, why would you simulate this ? So many things in universe make sense if they have happened by accident, but make no sense to include in an intentionally created simulation. If I would have the power and intelligence to create/simulate a universe, there's no way in hell…

"if you could simulate anything, why would you simulate this?" I want to agree... but then... I look at Youtube and wonder why a large portion of that gets made. With the computing power we have NOW... look at all the stupid stuff that gets made. Imagine 50 years from now.

Well, making a silly youtube video for no reason is not the same as making a world where millions of sentient beings suffer/die for no reason.
Post reply on HN