Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#1

Post by savorypiano » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 9:59 PM UTC

Background: I'm about to receive an offer for a position originally posted two levels above my current position. I passed the technical interviews with essentially no missed questions. But because the job description states 10 years of experience, whereas I have 8, the HR is preparing me an offer at one level below (but still an equivalent promotion for me).

Secondly, I graduated during the last recession, so my salary history is low. Their HR has heavily indicated that they base offers on prior salary history, with a 10-15% max bump. Glassdoor has base salary at 30% higher than mine, same company and title, but HR denies that it is accurate.

Due to circumstances, 10-15% may not bring much net savings increase for me. Presumably the job is of higher responsibility and workload, so only 30% becomes meaningful to me.

Questions:

1. How should I feel about being brought in one level lower strictly because of years of experience on paper? If there were doubts about my ability, they certainly didn't test harder questions during the interview.

2. How do I get HR to match what is on Glassdoor? I might get another offer soon, but HR indicated they want a prompt response. I doubt my company would move fast enough with a counteroffer too (VP is on vacation). On the other hand, I don't think they have another candidate ready, and they moved very quickly with me.

Thanks HN!

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#2

Post by devnonymous » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

> 1. How should I feel about being brought in one level lower strictly because of years of experience on paper? If there were doubts about my ability, they certainly didn't test harder questions during the interview.

Personally, I would not have felt too great about this. Are you really excited about this new job or are you switching just for the raise? The fact that they even have a hierarchy that's 3 level deep, counted in number of years and all that after a supposedly 8 year cut off just doesn't seem right. I think the HR is just trying to get you for the lowest offer they think you will find acceptable, not for what they think you ought to deserve.

About the response time don't sweat it. If they really want you, they'll be willing to hash out the details. Hiring for a single position can take 3 months or more, it's a lot of wasted effort if a company gets to the point of making an offer and having candidates decline.

Now, as far as how you should negotiate is concerned, I'm sorry, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution to that.

Hope this was helpful.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#3

Post by codegeek » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

How bad do you want this job? If not bad enough, say this to the HR:

"I appreciate the offer but I strongly believe that my market value should get me $desired and if you cannot match that, I will not be able to move forward."

Hit send, close tab and go away from your emails for a while. If they truly value your skills since they already interviewed you, you will get the deal. If not, hey you didnt lose anything

This has worked for me many times.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#4

Post by gt565k » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 10:55 PM UTC

Please tell me you didn't share your previous salary with HR :)

Also 8 vs 10 years of experience is not a significant difference so that HR can BS you.

They are moving quick on you because you're a solid candidate, and they are trying to close quick.

Don't let HR BS you, once you get an offer, counter them at 10-20% of where you want to be, or simply give them a range that you feel comfortable with.

You are the scarce resource, and at an advantage. They've already budgeted for the position at 2 levels above yours, so they have the money. No reason you shouldn't be able to get it.

Be firm, don't accept their lowball.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#5

Post by akulbe » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 11:13 PM UTC

The other thing to consider... don't only negotiate for money part of the salary. Think of vacation time, and other perks as well.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#6

Post by nicholas73 » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:27 AM UTC

gt565k wrote: post #4

Please tell me you didn't share your previous salary with HR :) Also 8 vs 10 years of experience is not a significant difference so that HR can BS you. They are moving quick on you because you're a solid candidate, and they are trying to close quick. Don't let HR BS you, once you get an offer, counter them at 10-20% of where you want to be, or simply give them a range that you feel comfortable with. You are the scarc…

I did share, despite being on HN. This was because my previous employers did verify my previous salaries, with one demanding a paystub prior to offer. I also met with HR prior to meeting the division head (he had to switch to last), so I was nervous about making a negative impression on site. It was a mistake, I know, but I thought I could just negotiate it back up since Glassdoor has made information public.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#7

Post by nicholas73 » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:29 AM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #3

How bad do you want this job? If not bad enough, say this to the HR: "I appreciate the offer but I strongly believe that my market value should get me $desired and if you cannot match that, I will not be able to move forward." Hit send, close tab and go away from your emails for a while. If they truly value your skills since they already interviewed you, you will get the deal. If not, hey you didnt lose anything This…

Thanks. I've got some unique circumstances that do let me walk away, and I'm only asking for parity within the company.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#8

Post by nicholas73 » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:30 AM UTC

akulbe wrote: post #5

The other thing to consider... don't only negotiate for money part of the salary. Think of vacation time, and other perks as well.

Thanks, I might try to get the title back after the final number is done.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#9

Post by nicholas73 » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:32 AM UTC

devnonymous wrote: post #2

> 1. How should I feel about being brought in one level lower strictly because of years of experience on paper? If there were doubts about my ability, they certainly didn't test harder questions during the interview. Personally, I would not have felt too great about this. Are you really excited about this new job or are you switching just for the raise? The fact that they even have a hierarchy that's 3 level deep, co…

Thanks, I'm okay with a hierarchy... it's pretty standard for engineers isn't it? The number of years is a bit old school, true.

Re: Ask HN: Need help with job offer negotiation

#10

Post by TheCustos » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:44 AM UTC

I'd recommend being very polite, but direct with the recruiter.

"I appreciate your generous offer and would love to join the team! The role is exciting and the team is fantastic. The current offer feels like it comes in a bit under market both in terms of title and compensation.

I am ready to accept an offer at the initial level at a starting salary of . I totally understand if this doesn't work for the broader team, but I want to make sure our partnership starts off in alignment to ensure a mutually beneficial long-term relationship."

Written on my mobile, so it's a VERY rough draft, but something like that.

Don't let people under pay you, but also be realistic w/ your talent level.