Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

nautil.us

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 303 posts

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#191

Post by mindcrime »

nitrogen wrote: post #190
mindcrime wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an underfunded, underachieving public school, overwhelmed and inexperienced teachers, a below average guidance counselor, no role models who have gone to college, parents who do not know anything about applying for scholarships or financial aid, a diet of fast food, and few examples of other people in similar roles who became millionaires That sounds like my life except for the inner city part. Substitute "redneck-vi…

Since people from "easier" backgrounds don't need those things to succeed, isn't it reasonable to suggest you are "lucky" to have the attitude and determination that made you the exception? Edit: I think it might be productive to society for the exceptional cases to ask how a better attitude could be encouraged in their former peers. Do the ones who fail lack faith that their efforts would pay off, or do they just no…

If you do that, then IMO, you're just redefining "luck" to the point that it doesn't mean anything.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#192

Post by nitrogen »

mindcrime wrote: post #191
nitrogen wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since people from "easier" backgrounds don't need those things to succeed, isn't it reasonable to suggest you are "lucky" to have the attitude and determination that made you the exception? Edit: I think it might be productive to society for the exceptional cases to ask how a better attitude could be encouraged in their former peers. Do the ones who fail lack faith that their efforts would pay off, or do they just no…

If you do that, then IMO, you're just redefining "luck" to the point that it doesn't mean anything.

I added some more in an edit, but I'll restate my question a bit differently here. I think a lot about the many paths people take through life and where they can and cannot lead, so this is a genuine question. Where did you get your successful attitude? Was it innate, or were you exposed to media or people that encouraged it?

For me personally, I think positive-outlook TV shows like Star Trek TNG had a bigger influence on my attitudes toward life than I might want to admit. So I'm really curious where others who take a significantly different path from their peer group derived their motivation to succeed.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#193

Post by thebspatrol »

kyleschiller wrote: post #18

Debating the actual importance of luck seems a lot less important than developing the proper attitude towards luck. Pretending luck doesn't exist can lead to arrogance and a lack of empty for people who haven't succeeded. On the other hand, believing that luck controls everything can lead to fatalism. It might seem best to find a happy medium, but being wishy washy about this whole thing just gives you opportunities…

Another commenter used the phrase "luck surface area", which I think plays well into the concept that everything is hinged on an element of luck, where harder workers and people with better birthright generally have larger "surface area".

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#194

Post by dv_dt »

SilasX wrote: post #170
awa wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why mortgage interest deduction gets such a bad rap. It allows a lot of people to be able to afford homes which they couldn't otherwise. It helps the housing market/industry and banking industry. Apart from that a lot of other countries has it. If I had to change something I would actually add a rental deduction to help those who can't afford to buy housing instead of removing mortgage interest deductio…

>I am not sure why mortgage interest deduction gets such a bad rap. It allows a lot of people to be able to afford homes which they couldn't otherwise. It helps the housing market/industry and banking industry. No, it doesn't. The prospect of getting the deduction drives up demand for home purchases and therefore the price (relative to income). If we got rid of it, the same mortgage would take more money out of your…

I wouldn't be so sure that removing mortgage interest deduction would do anything to help pricing in home markets.

People owning rental properties get to deduct interest on financing used for the property. If we eliminated the mortgage interest deduction for home owners, we would be strongly favouring rent seeking behaviour - literally.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#195

Post by mindcrime »

jartelt wrote: post #183
mindcrime wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an underfunded, underachieving public school, overwhelmed and inexperienced teachers, a below average guidance counselor, no role models who have gone to college, parents who do not know anything about applying for scholarships or financial aid, a diet of fast food, and few examples of other people in similar roles who became millionaires That sounds like my life except for the inner city part. Substitute "redneck-vi…

First off, congrats on getting to where you are today. It sounds like your hard work is really paying off. I would just note that one of the points of the article is that it is difficult for a successful person to recognize the lucky events in their life. Perhaps in one of your job interviews you hit it off with the interviewer because you went to the same college or were both from "redneck-ville." Another person wit…

I don't see anybody really saying that "every outcome is fair and logical" though. My issue is just all this luck talk is counter-productive. I mean, if you convince a group of people that life is nothing but luck, how have you helped them? Why bother working hard at all, if you don't believe it can possibly pay off?

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#196

Post by Frondo »

mindcrime wrote: post #146
wazoox wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, he believes in a just world, in providence, and you don't (in other words, he's religious and you're not). I think this is the crux of most of these arguments.

Being religious or not has nothing to do with believing that effort is the dominant factor affecting success. I'm an atheist who also believes that effort reigns supreme. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that what we call "bad luck" can't come along and derail you, but I firmly believe - based on my own experience - that you "make your own luck" through effort and the decisions you make. I grew in dirt-poor in…

That's great. I'm genuinely happy for you that you got out of rural NC, and I think your work ethic is to be commended greatly.

You worked hard, bettered your situation.

I still want to live in an America where no one needs to work that hard to have a comfortable life. Not luxurious, but comfortable. Anyone willing to put in 40 hours of work a week, they should be able to afford shelter in their region, have nice things every once in a while, have meat on the table regularly, etc.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#197

Post by bradyo »

mindcrime wrote: post #195
jartelt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, congrats on getting to where you are today. It sounds like your hard work is really paying off. I would just note that one of the points of the article is that it is difficult for a successful person to recognize the lucky events in their life. Perhaps in one of your job interviews you hit it off with the interviewer because you went to the same college or were both from "redneck-ville." Another person wit…

I don't see anybody really saying that "every outcome is fair and logical" though. My issue is just all this luck talk is counter-productive. I mean, if you convince a group of people that life is nothing but luck, how have you helped them? Why bother working hard at all, if you don't believe it can possibly pay off?

Because people working hard in aggregate can improve the situation of _all_ people in the system if the system equally distributes rewards. The problem is we don't live in such a system. So I (and others in this thread) will continue to try to convince people to have more empathy until we do have such a system.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#198

Post by mindcrime »

nitrogen wrote: post #192
mindcrime wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do that, then IMO, you're just redefining "luck" to the point that it doesn't mean anything.

I added some more in an edit, but I'll restate my question a bit differently here. I think a lot about the many paths people take through life and where they can and cannot lead, so this is a genuine question. Where did you get your successful attitude? Was it innate, or were you exposed to media or people that encouraged it? For me personally, I think positive-outlook TV shows like Star Trek TNG had a bigger influen…

Where did you get your successful attitude? Was it innate, or were you exposed to media or people that encouraged it?

I don't think there's any way for me to answer that. My attitude has been shaped by 43 years of various influences... parents, friends, TV, books, movies, and FSM knows who/what all else.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#199

Post by mindcrime »

bradyo wrote: post #197
mindcrime wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anybody really saying that "every outcome is fair and logical" though. My issue is just all this luck talk is counter-productive. I mean, if you convince a group of people that life is nothing but luck, how have you helped them? Why bother working hard at all, if you don't believe it can possibly pay off?

Because people working hard in aggregate can improve the situation of _all_ people in the system if the system equally distributes rewards. The problem is we don't live in such a system. So I (and others in this thread) will continue to try to convince people to have more empathy until we do have such a system.

"the system" doesn't have to distribute rewards equally for people to work to improve the situation of all (or most) people.

So I (and others in this thread) will continue to try to convince people to have more empathy until we do have such a system.

I see those as orthogonal concerns. You can have empathy even if you don't have a "everything is luck" mentality.

Re: Don’t Tell Your Friends They’re Lucky

#200

Post by phkahler »

kahnpro wrote: post #65
phkahler wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still requires keeping track of all purchases.

Why? You could just provide an scaling rebate based on income and average spending. Or a flat rebate for anyone under an income threshold.

Proving "average spending" to the government is going to require informing them of all your purchases - which is what I was complaining about and you were supposed to refute. You also brought income back into the picture, followed by UBI.
Post reply on HN