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Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

blog.benjamin-encz.de

241–250 of 413 posts

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#242
Warren Buffett summed up businesses like this quite well[0]:

> The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.

[0]: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2007ltr.pdf

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Uber we know right now will probably transition into the self-driving car-based company for freight, passenger transport and ride sharing. It'll be a bit unsettling to see what'll happen to the drivers they're using right now. I personally think that Uber is not an ethical company (I do live in Europe). They are exploiting tax and legal loopholes to profit off of both drivers and countries, simply because regulat…

>Don't misunderstand me, taxi service in my country is horrible, they're useless and rude and service is generally bad, but just because that's the situation, we should try and improve that, instead of allowing companies like Uber to exploit the situation. I don't really understand this mentality. You don't want to let them exploit the situation by profiting off of making things better for consumers?

I do believe that I as a consumer am entitled to receiving good customer service for the money I pay for. I do understand that sometimes people can have bad days and I don't mind that, consistently horrible service and a bad system irritates me and I think it's not fair, but it is kind of a one-sided world view, and I personally don't permit that to myself.

On the long run this is a financial equation, it might be more comfortable for consumers at the moment to hail a cab with their phones and use their credit cards to pay, receive better service, et cetera, but let's take into account the long term price paid by them. Letting foreign companies exploit both tax and regulatory laws to take as much money out of the country as possible before getting shot down is not a good strategy on the long term. Start-ups can get away with it, because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that they seem "exciting" and "booming".

The same way we aren't especially happy with the people who got exposed in the Panama Papers, or Donald Trump publicly admitting that he doesn't care and will abuse the system, we kind of have to draw a line. If we all decide to do the same, because laws and taxes are not convenient to our short term goals or let other entities do it, it's just gonna backfire at the consumer on the long term, when infrastructure and lives depend on a government having money. Let us not even mention the whole international tax situation, it being as problematic as it is. (Just look at what's going on with Ireland)

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#244
post #21

I live in Singapore and Uber is a little cheaper than the excellent cab services which operated here even before Uber. There is a big competitor to Uber here called Grab. I switched to Uber because their service is good, drivers are gracious and cars are nice and they give me good offers. Last year I took 300 Uber rides, never once taking the usual Comfort Delgro Cab because their drivers suck. If prices were the sam…

> excellent cab services

> their drivers suck

haha.

a lot of people use uber here. I think they've got a better hold on the market than grab.

if only the uber drivers will stop driving by gps because their mapping software is always wrong.

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#245
post #5

Definitely worth reading the Naked Capitalism series he mentions in a footnote: Part 1: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver... Part 2: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/can-uber-ever-deliver... Part 3: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/can-uber-ever-deliver... Part 4: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/can-uber-ever-deliver... Part 5: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/can-u…

Can't upvote this enough. It's a rigorous analysis showing that Uber is running a VC-funded ponzi-scheme in their current iteration.

It is possible that some future Uber innovation will make them profitable, but their current operation is smoke and mirrors.

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#246
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison. Isn't that exactly what makes it a status symbol? Keeping up with the Joneses, and all -- it's one thing to not play the game, but that doesn't mean a lot of people don't, and this seems to just be agreeing with what makes it a status symbol. Most American cities are suffici…

> > A car isn't much of a status symbol when most of your friends can't afford a nice one either. Kinda makes you look like a dick, in comparison. > Isn't that exactly what makes it a status symbol? To be an effective status symbol, something has to be of higher status, but not too high a status. Gold chains are just gauche, despite how valuable they are. So too, once upon a time, having a cell phone.

I think the tricky part there is social context. There are social groups where gold chains are absolutely status symbols. You'd be hard-pressed to find an NFL receiver without one, for instance.

Conversely, there are groups where being able to afford _not_ to own a car is a status symbol. Think "I live in a neighborhood where everything is walkable", or "I just throw money at Uber because it's easier and I can afford it".

Anything is a potential status symbol, if a group subconsciously agrees that it is. If your group doesn't value humility then too-high-status isn't really a thing.

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#247

I don't understand his point. Maybe I'm dense (today, ha). If Uber has a (simplified) split cost per drive consisting of vehicle (+maintenance) and/or fuel & driver. If subsidised part is generally covering the driver part. When you replace driver with autonomous vehicle and you remove subsidies, you're left with a sustainable (presumably) model on a certain margin that is already rolling. Rolling in a sense that it…

The Uber we know right now will probably transition into the self-driving car-based company for freight, passenger transport and ride sharing. It'll be a bit unsettling to see what'll happen to the drivers they're using right now. I personally think that Uber is not an ethical company (I do live in Europe). They are exploiting tax and legal loopholes to profit off of both drivers and countries, simply because regulat…

I only want to point out, UBER isn't profiting from anything. They are literally burning money to subsidize their growth.

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon actually didn't have much competition at a key point in it's growth, i.e. just after the dot com crash. Amazon survived, many did not and Amazon then had a few years to cement their dominance in the online shopping space. Amazon is also very different from Uber in that it a) went public earlier and b) didn't need huge outside cash injections like Uber and c) Wasn't making a huge gross loss on sales like people…

> Amazon actually didn't have much competition at a key point in it's growth Except for every single brick & mortar store -- which has always been Amazon's biggest "competitor".

Brick and mortar stores were (and still are) extremely weak competition. That's why Amazon utterly crushed many of them and continues to do so. Not just small mom and pops either. Borders, which at one point was one of the largest bookstore chains in the nation, shuttered its doors because it didn't switch to an online model fast enough. Barnes and Noble at some point was in deep trouble as well.

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#249
The arguments against Uber here are well-stated and have been posted elsewhere (see Naked Capitalism's excellent 6-part series)

In these comments (and other HN threads) I see the same pro-Uber arguments again and again so I will try my best to address them as I think they are misguided.

> Uber is doing all this in anticipation of self-driving cars, which will change the economics of the whole operation.

The first and most obvious issue here is runway. True self-driving cars that won't need a human in the driver's seat are probably 5 years away. Can Uber lose 1-2B a year until then?

The second problem is that Uber won't have a monopoly on self driving car tech. Google and others will get there around the same time. How will this be a competitive advantage to Uber and not to Lyft or some yet-to-come competitor?

> Uber is building network effects that will protect it from competitors.

Uber's network effect, if it has one, is at odds with the self-driving car strategy. Right now Uber has the shortest ride waits because it has the most drivers. If a driver is a robot, a well-capitalized competitor can just buy a huge fleet and take over any local market.

So you can't have both the network effect and the self-driving fleet. And without both, Uber is likely not worth anywhere near 70B.

> Taxis are just step 1. Uber is building a platform to bring anything or anyone from A to B.

A software platform for logistics would never be worth 70B. Period.

In Uber's meager attempts to generalize their own platform, such as Uber Eats, they have not done very well.

If total knowledge about driving patterns and navigation is the real money-maker, Google will have a big advantage with Maps/Waze data. In fact, most Uber drivers are using Maps or Waze to drive anyway.

> Uber's customer experience is so good I stopped using Taxis.

Uber's current dominance can be explained by one thing: price. Analysis has shown that every Uber ride is subsidized by about 50%, even in mature markets. If Uber suddenly doubled all prices they'd lose customers in droves.

As for driver quality, any long-time Uber user can tell you this has gone down to be about the same as a cab (slightly better, but not reliably better). The average uber driver is just some guy doing whatever the GPS tells him to do. It's low-wage work and Uber is pushing the wages down all the time, there's no way you're going to keep high driver quality indefinitely.

Re: Why I don't believe in Uber's Success

#250
"Network effects are mostly irrelevant for Uber’s business. Yes, they need a large supply of drivers to make the service viable, but this isn’t an advantage of Uber compared to regular cabs which have sufficient availability in most cities."

I've never been to a city where there were a sufficient number of cabs except for Manhattan specifically in NYC and London. Every other US city, the taxi situation is bleak to unusable.

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