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RethinkDB Postmortem

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Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#261

Post by geoka9 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #260
geoka9 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can open a standard library definition and quickly understand what it does. If I try to do that with Scala or Java, my eyes just glaze over. With Go I often don't notice when I venture outside of my own program and into 3rd party library code.

It sounds like you just didn't out in the work to learn Haskell. The docs are fantastic, but they do assume you are willing to get over the learning curve. I don't think you are really disagreeing with me - go does nothing new, just lower learning curve.

That's the problem, there's no getting over the learning curve when it comes to languages like Scala or Haskell. While you do get more proficient with time, you never get to the state where the language gets out of the way and becomes your friend instead of something you have to wrestle most of the time to enjoy the benefits it offers (which are also offered by Go, BTW).

I was disagreeing with your original statement, Go is not just a faster python.

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#263

Post by codygman »

geoka9 wrote: post #261
yummyfajitas wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you just didn't out in the work to learn Haskell. The docs are fantastic, but they do assume you are willing to get over the learning curve. I don't think you are really disagreeing with me - go does nothing new, just lower learning curve.

That's the problem, there's no getting over the learning curve when it comes to languages like Scala or Haskell. While you do get more proficient with time, you never get to the state where the language gets out of the way and becomes your friend instead of something you have to wrestle most of the time to enjoy the benefits it offers (which are also offered by Go, BTW). I was disagreeing with your original statement…

> That's the problem, there's no getting over the learning curve when it comes to languages like Scala or Haskell.

How did you come to this conclusion? Based on your own experiences? If so, why do you find it reasonable to assert your anecdotal truth generally?

> enjoy the benefits it offers (which are also offered by Go, BTW).

Are you seriously saying Go offers the entirety of features that Haskell offers. So what, you think people are just using Haskell for no real reason?

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#264

Post by dragonwriter »

geoka9 wrote: post #261
yummyfajitas wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you just didn't out in the work to learn Haskell. The docs are fantastic, but they do assume you are willing to get over the learning curve. I don't think you are really disagreeing with me - go does nothing new, just lower learning curve.

That's the problem, there's no getting over the learning curve when it comes to languages like Scala or Haskell. While you do get more proficient with time, you never get to the state where the language gets out of the way and becomes your friend instead of something you have to wrestle most of the time to enjoy the benefits it offers (which are also offered by Go, BTW). I was disagreeing with your original statement…

> That's the problem, there's no getting over the learning curve when it comes to languages like Scala or Haskell

For you, maybe. For plenty of others, that's clearly not true.

> While you do get more proficient with time, you never get to the state where the language gets out of the way and becomes your friend instead of something you have to wrestle most of the time to enjoy the benefits it offers (which are also offered by Go, BTW)

Go offers weaker type-safety benefits that Java (with the benefit of less type-safety ceremony), much less Scala or Haskell (against which it has less ceremony benefit, because Haskell and Scala have reduced ceremony with stronger type systems).

Go doesn't offer the benefits Haskell or Scala (or Rust) do. OTOH, some people find it more intuitive, and it does offer different benefits which may be more relevant to some use cases. The sweet spot for Go seems to be the place where, before Go, you might use Python but be upset about performance and might use C but be upset about boilerplate; Go improves over the weaknesses of either on that border, while preserving most (but not necessarily all) of their strengths.

> Go isn't just a faster Python.

Faster (and more parallel) Python, less obtrusive C, lower ceremony and more native Java -- it's not just any of these, but they sort of capture its primary strengths.

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#265

Post by yummyfajitas »

geoka9 wrote: post #261
yummyfajitas wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you just didn't out in the work to learn Haskell. The docs are fantastic, but they do assume you are willing to get over the learning curve. I don't think you are really disagreeing with me - go does nothing new, just lower learning curve.

That's the problem, there's no getting over the learning curve when it comes to languages like Scala or Haskell. While you do get more proficient with time, you never get to the state where the language gets out of the way and becomes your friend instead of something you have to wrestle most of the time to enjoy the benefits it offers (which are also offered by Go, BTW). I was disagreeing with your original statement…

Thanks for providing an anecdote which 100% supports the claim I made: that all Go provides is an inferior language that appeals to people who don't wish to learn new things.

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#267

Post by zubairq »

joshberkus wrote: post #75

Coffeemug: there's one other thing you missed in the postmortem. The early marketing (1st year) for RethinkDB was all about optimizing for SSD storage. Since this was largely nonsense, database consultants like me (who were in a position to push technically correct solutions) read about it, and dismissed RethinkDB from our thoughts forever. I keep up pretty well with the OSS DB field, and didn't realize what you were…

I agree, i thought of rethink as a ssd product too and I only started using it when I read the postmortem

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#268

Post by sah2ed »

karlunho wrote: post #7

There is bigger market forces that isn't being considered here - namely that the entire database as a service margins have been nearly driving down to zero by AWS. Why do you think firebase had to sellout to Google ? Why did Parse shut down ? Simply because the big cloud vendors figured out that providing paas services at nearly the cost of the infrastructure will win them even more compute workloads which is the rea…

Actually, I think learning to understand how these (complex) market forces come into play is exactly why Slava added the recommendation to religiously read The Economist at the very end of the article for maximum effect.

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#269

Post by slake »

mythz wrote: post #101
slake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Postgres is pretty awesome, but I think the one thing it has going against it is a good GUI client. MySQL has way too many good options wherease Postgres is stuck on this front.

JetBrains DataGrip is also worth considering - another polished quality app from JetBrains: https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/

I've been meaning to try this. I'll check it out.

Re: RethinkDB Postmortem

#270

Post by slake »

manigandham wrote: post #79
slake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Postgres is pretty awesome, but I think the one thing it has going against it is a good GUI client. MySQL has way too many good options wherease Postgres is stuck on this front.

Highly recommend DBeaver http://dbeaver.jkiss.org/

Will try. Thanks
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