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The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

greenlab.psych.wisc.edu

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Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#11

Post by TulliusCicero »

JetSpiegel wrote: post #4
WA wrote: post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

Maybe you are paying the wrong kind of games? I think online competitive games, like esports, only make you better at playing games, but other single player games are comparable artforms and only nominally "pointless wastes if time".

I'd guess it's the opposite. Competitive games probably have a stronger positive effect on cognition because of the level and variety of challenge involved. Single player games are frequently (although not always) less challenging, and even when they are challenging, they can often be beaten via rote memorization.

People have a tendency to apply a Puritan-esque attitude to games, assuming that less 'productive' (read: violent) games must also be less useful, and games that are more artsy, or revolve or around building (Minecraft), or are more abstract/less gamey (brain training games) must be more useful.

The reality is that people improve their cognitive abilities more when under more stress, when they're challenging themselves, not because the activity is more of an 'art form'. Repeatedly going to the opera may have other benefits, but it isn't going to make your brain compute any faster.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#12

Post by ronjouch »

WA wrote: post #6
JetSpiegel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you are paying the wrong kind of games? I think online competitive games, like esports, only make you better at playing games, but other single player games are comparable artforms and only nominally "pointless wastes if time".

I had a few hours of single player games. The advantage is that they're over and get boring after a while. At least in story mode. I played Super Mario on iOS. It's a neat game and indeed, it got boring after I got all green coins and all characters. Games getting boring is a good thing! But the real good ones keep you engaged forever. That's the problem ;)

I'll pinch my two cents into JetSpiegel's bowl when s/he suggests that "maybe you are paying the wrong kind of games? [...] other single player games are comparable artforms and only nominally 'pointless wastes if time'". Here are some games I enjoyed in 2016:

#1. The Witness, The Talos Principle, Her Story, Inside, Firewatch, Near Death, Event[0].

#2. Alien Isolation, SOMA, Grow Up.

#3. Furi, Thumper, DOOM 2016.

Why do I group them this way? #1 is "story/thinking", #3 is "immersion", #3 is "hard". I like games when they tell me stories (#1), much like a good movie. I enjoy the fact that being active in them contributes to making them sometimes even more immersive than a good movie (#2), and finally (and maybe this one is a bit closer to your feelings) I enjoy when they're so stupidly hard they make your heart pound when you've almost beaten this boss and gaaaaah no, dead again, retry (#3).

I'm not in any way trying to make you adhere to these categories (to each his own), just showing that games only have to be brainless dopamine-hit-based time-wasters if your let your choice of games make them so. The Witness is a remarkable adventure in learning and witnessing (gah) your own errors. Alien Isolation is the best Alien I've ever experienced in my body, regardless of medium. Firewatch is a human tale. Etc.

Remains the "they waste time" point. True, and so is watching a season of Black Mirror. On my side, I've

1. Come to peace with the fact that I'm not going to be 100% "productive" 100% of the time. All the time I played Witness was not spent learning Rust or taking an art course like yours. Alright.

2. Learned to consider what a game might bring to me and take from me before buying. I remain below a waste threshold (a. Bring/Take ratio too low, or b. Take obscenely high) by fleeing MMOs and CandyCrushes and rogue-likes and loot simulators like plague, and never ever chase coins/characters/achievements.

Can you expand on the kind of games you tried and why/how you consider single-player games boring?

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#13

Post by lillesvin »

WA wrote: post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

> I think it does something bad to your brain. Not necessarily altering it forever, but at least turning one into a little dopamine junkie.

Arguably we are inherently dopamine junkies and gaming is just one way to feed that addiction, learning other skills — like painting, playing an instrument, etc. — is another.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#14

Post by TulliusCicero »

WA wrote: post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

> Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well.

You're right that this is a good question. My guess is that compared to other common activities and hobbies, the answer is yes.

Most people aren't spending the bulk of their free time solving mathematical riddles, after all, they're hanging out with friends, they're shopping, watching TV, playing sports, etc. And those are all fine things, but given the purely mental challenge involved in video games, the cognitive benefits there are probably relatively high.

There are undoubtedly more efficient ways to improve your brain, but they're probably a lot less fun than video games.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#15

Post by Agentlien »

Before I started working in AAA game development I spent a few years working in the field of virtual training simulators for laparoscopic surgery.

In that context there were several similar studies. We mainly focused on those performed in order to validate skill transfer from our own training simulation to the operating room.[1][2][3]

However, there were also studies which showed that doctors who had spent a lot of time playing video games in their spare time performed better in the operating room, as well.[4]

[1] Skills acquired on LapSim transfer into the operating room, Gunnar Ahlberg et al., The American Journal of Surgery, 2007:193, p797

[2] Novice performance level bypassed by VR simulation training, Christian Rifbjerg Larsen et al., British Medical Journal, 2009:338, p1802

[3] VR laparoscopic training outperforms traditional curriculum, Vanessa Palter et al., Annals of Surgery, 2013:257, p 224

[4] The impact of video games on training surgeons in the 21st century, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17309970

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#16

Post by jacobush »

lillesvin wrote: post #13
WA wrote: post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

> I think it does something bad to your brain. Not necessarily altering it forever, but at least turning one into a little dopamine junkie. Arguably we are inherently dopamine junkies and gaming is just one way to feed that addiction, learning other skills — like painting, playing an instrument, etc. — is another.

Upvote but I think games can make the patience for gratification be too low. So we only become capable of doing things which gives instant gratification.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#17

Post by TulliusCicero »

It's funny, because we'll talk all day long about how (physical) play is so important to a child's cognitive development, never considering that maybe mentally-focused play is also beneficial. The very fact that video games are so compelling/addictive has given them the reputation of being nonproductive, so we tend to assume that they must give little or no benefit to the individual player.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#18

Post by warcode »

WA wrote: post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

Competitive video games also make me better at rapid decision making under pressure, prediction, (clear) communication and teamwork.

In the same way I could say that drawing and painting only makes you better at drawing and painting.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#19

Post by Agentlien »

jacobush wrote: post #16
lillesvin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it does something bad to your brain. Not necessarily altering it forever, but at least turning one into a little dopamine junkie. Arguably we are inherently dopamine junkies and gaming is just one way to feed that addiction, learning other skills — like painting, playing an instrument, etc. — is another.

Upvote but I think games can make the patience for gratification be too low. So we only become capable of doing things which gives instant gratification.

I would say that depends entirely on the game itself. I agree that a lot of games are guilty of serving lots of cheap dopamine fixes. In fact, that is the business model of a large portion of the mobile gaming industry.

As an avid gamer, I find this sad and I do my best to stay clear of those games.

One of my favourite games is the antithesis of this, at least the way I play it. Namely Hitman: Blood Money, where I spent countless hours trying to complete every mission without hurting anyone other than the targets and without ever being detected. Without checkpoints, of course. That requires a lot of patience and leads to hours of tension and suspense culminating in a few intense bursts of excitement and satisfaction.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#20

Post by 6stringmerc »

WA wrote: post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

When I noticed my nice guitar and really good equipment was going unused so I could spend more time in Half-Life / Adrenaline Gamer / CS, which at the end of the day produced nothing really of worth I could trade in real life (a few online friendships evolved I know), it was time to hang up the serious gaming.

No more desktop. Barely any console time. I'm perfectly happy with older Angry Birds games and trying to get 3 stars without any gimmicks. That's my fix...well, okay I'll probably get some Forza VW Herbie action in, but the time I don't spend on games is, I like to think, used productively elsewhere (chores, cooking, etc).

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