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Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

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Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#91

Post by Zanni »

If Zuckerberg is trying to dislodge residents from their homes, that's reprehensible. On the other hand, if he's merely trying to gain clear and unencumbered title to land that he's already bought and paid for, that's ... just common sense? Unfortunately the article doesn't really make it clear which scenario is operating here.

The writer invokes the word "kamaaina," which a lot of folks here are interpreting as "Native Hawaiian." It literally means "child of the land," but is used locally to mean "Hawaii resident." If you've lived in Hawaii long enough to get a Hawaii driver's license, congrats, you're kamaaina, as distinct from "malahini" (newcomer) or "kanaka maoli" (which does mean Native Hawaiian).

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#92

Post by meanduck »

hueving wrote: post #90
abtinf wrote: post #50

It is clear that almost no one commenting here has actually read past the first few paragraphs of the article (if that). It is very well written and explain that this is an extremely complex issue. Property rights are the foundation of civil society. Due to variety of factors, Hawaii has destroyed property rights on some parcels due to degenerate laws and legal customs. Just consider one point raised by the article:…

Why would anyone read the article when they can take the opportunity to bash the rich?

The GP is good comment lets not init a flame war here.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#93

Post by nym »

abtinf wrote: post #50

It is clear that almost no one commenting here has actually read past the first few paragraphs of the article (if that). It is very well written and explain that this is an extremely complex issue. Property rights are the foundation of civil society. Due to variety of factors, Hawaii has destroyed property rights on some parcels due to degenerate laws and legal customs. Just consider one point raised by the article:…

You could err on the side of the living ancestor(s).

In absence of saying "that fraction is approaching zero", you could assume the intent of the original buyer that they wanted anyone from their family living there.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#94

Post by disordinary »

TopRamen33 wrote: post #46
disordinary wrote: post #15

Surely his lawyers informed him of the situation when he bought it. In Hawaii (or the US in general) can people own beaches below the high tide mark? Surely it's impossible to have 100% seclusion anyway as people can land by boat when the tide is low and enjoy at their leisure?

All beaches are public property in Hawaii. http://seagrant.soest.hawaii.edu/public-access-rights But Zuck doesn't spend his time on the beach on his property.

If he's a typical wealthy person he probably only spends a couple of weeks a year there and has other holiday properties scattered around.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#95

Post by nym »

AustinBGibbons wrote: post #32

Zuckerberg purchased the land from all serious parties, and now his lawyers are doing their due diligence to track down anyone who might own even a "1/3,276" share, and are hardly treating anyone unfairly. Put down your pitchforks, no one is being driven off their land.

The issue is around compelling people to sell land they don't want to, that has a tradition of belonging to that family.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#96

Post by willvarfar »

It reminds me of old maps of Swedish villages. In the 1700s there was a big push to accurately record who owned what in each village. The fields were divided into strips of ownership divided between children and by the 1700s this meant that each map has fields made up of long strips just a few feet wide. There were various schemes called 'skifte' to rationalize things, e.g. Solskifte (literally "sun shift") where the big farms were numbered clockwise (the direction the sun goes in) and the fields likewise and assigned. Of course they also took account of how good the fields were etc. My own house was built by a farmer selected to move from a village quite a long way away and given land to move to 1850. We have a list of timber etc he was entitled to take from his farm, which reads like a shopping list of the materials used to make the very grand new house.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#97

Post by iaw »

abtinf wrote: post #50

It is clear that almost no one commenting here has actually read past the first few paragraphs of the article (if that). It is very well written and explain that this is an extremely complex issue. Property rights are the foundation of civil society. Due to variety of factors, Hawaii has destroyed property rights on some parcels due to degenerate laws and legal customs. Just consider one point raised by the article:…

It didn't sound like any of the parcels had occupants nor were the ownership rights concentrated in a single individual. I'm not sure how I feel about this but it isn't a cut and dry issue.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#98

Post by debt »

hueving wrote: post #90
abtinf wrote: post #50

It is clear that almost no one commenting here has actually read past the first few paragraphs of the article (if that). It is very well written and explain that this is an extremely complex issue. Property rights are the foundation of civil society. Due to variety of factors, Hawaii has destroyed property rights on some parcels due to degenerate laws and legal customs. Just consider one point raised by the article:…

Why would anyone read the article when they can take the opportunity to bash the rich?

because the top 8 billionaires own more wealth than the bottom 50% of the global population?

the rich have really been sucking it up lately.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/20...

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#99

Post by andrei_says_ »

olalonde wrote: post #82
_m8fo wrote: post #47

Is there a historical precedent for those above the peasants, but still below the king, to constantly rationalize and serve as king apologists? I notice an interesting trend with a large chunk of the discussion being centered towards why [rich person's] [behavior] is not [as bad] as you think. Maybe it's because the king enables those above the peasants to retain that position? It's really interesting, actually. Kind…

I think it's more of a knee jerk reaction to the "wealthy people are evil" narrative that is quite common in the media. Some people just read the headline and immediately assume it's another instance of this, whether they are right or wrong. Personally, this kind of article doesn't "gratify my intellectual curiosity" and I don't think it belongs on HN.

Of course, wealthy people are not evil.

But maybe it just happens that in order to become wealthy, people more often than not have to repeatedly choose wealth over generosity, exploit other people, take advantage of resources that less privileged ones pay for without explicit consent.

Also, it often happens that people who are already wealthy and possess more than what they and their children would need for comfortable royalty-level lives, continue accumulating wealth, focusing their disproportionally large power in more exploitation, more privilege, more wealth.

I'm not sure where the line between not quite evil and ok, clearly evil lies but sometimes I wonder if accumulating a lot of wealth while creating more and more suffering for many other humans is a healthy behavior.

Re: Facebook’s Zuckerberg sues to force land sales

#100

Post by notyourwork »

dbjacobs wrote: post #88

Here is my IANAL understanding. If multiple people own a property all it takes is one person who wants to sell and they can force a partition sale. So my guess is Zuckerberg is using the quiet title suit to get the names of all the players. He then just needs to get enough of the fractional owners of each property on board and he can then pay the legal fees to help them with their partition actions and then purchase…

Sounds about right, or perhaps get lucky and settle with some who are desperate for money.
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