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U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#11

Post by sbov »

nanistheonlyist wrote: post #8

The assumption underlying these "disparate impact" cases is that all races or genders have exactly the same distribution of skills. The problem is every time this assumption is tested it turns out to be false. https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

Did you even read the first sentence?

> The U.S. Labor Department has sued Oracle America Inc, alleging that the technology company systematically paid its white, male employees more than other workers and unlawfully favored Asian applicants in its recruiting and hiring efforts.

If you want to explain Asians being smarter as to why they are hired more I wouldn't expect them to ALSO pay white people more. Oracle is nailed either way you want to spin this.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#13

Post by j4kp07 »

Infinitesimus wrote: post #7

> The department also said that during its investigation, which began in 2014, Oracle refused to provide relevant information about its pay practices. That's the part that doesn't help Oracle at all in this. If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? (Granted, 'relevant information' might be loosely defined here) Tangent: I know several employers use the co…

> If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years?

Would you mind if a snoop through your wife's underwear drawer? You have nothing to hide. Right?

Why do you close your window blinds at night? You have nothing to hide. Right?

Would you mind if a place a GPS tracker on your vehicle for data collection purposes? You have nothing to hide. Right?

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#14

Post by eva1984 »

gozur88 wrote: post #9
eva1984 wrote: post #5

> technology company systematically paid its white, male employees more than other workers and unlawfully favored Asian applicants in its recruiting and hiring efforts. Wow...this is big.

And also not believable. The idea Oracle had a system that paid white guys more because they were white guys isn't credible without more than just salary evidence.

I mean the accusation itself. Whether it is true or not, we will have to see. It is going to be very interesting.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#15

Post by _m8fo »

Couple points:

First, this is where the meat is: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170118-0

Second:

"...Oracle nevertheless preferred Asian applications over other qualified applicants in the Professional Technical 1, Individual Contributor Job group and in the Product Development job group at statistically significant rates." [1]

[1] https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/newsroom/newsrelease...

---

Perhaps I'm naive, but I'll say it again and again until someone with influence hears me: large companies should do anonymous interviewing. I've interviewed with Oracle, Cisco, and many of the "old corporate-y" companies. There's ZERO reason the interview process can't be completely anonymized. Their interviews (from my limited experience) are completely impersonal and done on an ad-hoc basis anyway.

That being said, it seems this issue may be more of an H1B1 issue, which inherently cannot be made anonymous.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#16

Post by toomuchtodo »

j4kp07 wrote: post #13
Infinitesimus wrote: post #7

> The department also said that during its investigation, which began in 2014, Oracle refused to provide relevant information about its pay practices. That's the part that doesn't help Oracle at all in this. If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? (Granted, 'relevant information' might be loosely defined here) Tangent: I know several employers use the co…

> If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? Would you mind if a snoop through your wife's underwear drawer? You have nothing to hide. Right? Why do you close your window blinds at night? You have nothing to hide. Right? Would you mind if a place a GPS tracker on your vehicle for data collection purposes? You have nothing to hide. Right?

Corporations are not people my friend. They do not (and should not) have the same rights.

EDIT: Going through my wife's underwear drawer is not the same as having to provide payroll data to enforce labor law.

EDIT 2: If you're a government contractor, you have certain labor rights obligations, by law. If you violate those, the US government has the authority to pursue you.

"The department in a complaint filed with an administrative judge in Washington said the company was prohibited from engaging in racial discrimination given the hundreds of millions of dollars it receives as a contractor with the federal government."

"The U.S. Labor Department has sued Oracle America Inc, alleging that the technology company systematically paid its white, male employees more than other workers and unlawfully favored Asian applicants in its recruiting and hiring efforts."

It's in the first two paragraphs! Does anyone read the article anymore?

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#17

Post by [deleted] »

j4kp07 wrote: post #13
Infinitesimus wrote: post #7

> The department also said that during its investigation, which began in 2014, Oracle refused to provide relevant information about its pay practices. That's the part that doesn't help Oracle at all in this. If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? (Granted, 'relevant information' might be loosely defined here) Tangent: I know several employers use the co…

> If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? Would you mind if a snoop through your wife's underwear drawer? You have nothing to hide. Right? Why do you close your window blinds at night? You have nothing to hide. Right? Would you mind if a place a GPS tracker on your vehicle for data collection purposes? You have nothing to hide. Right?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#19

Post by falsestprophet »

This is the first legal test of the pervasive practice of Indian nationals hiring predominantly or exclusively other Indian nationals from their same region in India.

edit:

From the Department of Labor complaint:

"...Oracle nevertheless preferred Asian applications over other qualified applicants in the Professional Technical 1, Individual Contributor Job group and in the Product Development job group at statistically significant rates."

Who is it who is favoring Asian applicants for this job group?

This sort of bias is a danger when hiring decisions are made at a team level rather than a systematic company-wide process like at Google.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#20

Post by yarou »

j4kp07 wrote: post #13
Infinitesimus wrote: post #7

> The department also said that during its investigation, which began in 2014, Oracle refused to provide relevant information about its pay practices. That's the part that doesn't help Oracle at all in this. If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? (Granted, 'relevant information' might be loosely defined here) Tangent: I know several employers use the co…

> If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? Would you mind if a snoop through your wife's underwear drawer? You have nothing to hide. Right? Why do you close your window blinds at night? You have nothing to hide. Right? Would you mind if a place a GPS tracker on your vehicle for data collection purposes? You have nothing to hide. Right?

Well, if you want that expectation of privacy, maybe you shouldn't have become a federal contractor.
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