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How much does employee turnover really cost?

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Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#331

Post by burkaman »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #330
burkaman wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great, but you're essentially describing the last steps of a successful transformation. How did he get the skills and experience to qualify for entry level jobs in Silicon Valley? How long was he interviewing, and how did he pay for food during this time? Did he have any savings or fallback plan in case he couldn't get a job? If so, how did he prepare that? How much did it cost to get his family to the valley,…

No plan; no fallback; crummy $100 car; cheap gas at the time. Its good to plan things; but sometimes the friction prevents action. That's all I'm getting at.

I really feel like you're ignoring the substance of most of my comments. Friction is often a factor for people who have the means to do this, but do you understand that many people don't have the means? At the absolute minimum, your friend needed several hundred dollars in the bank, and a resume that included more than high school and minimum wage jobs. I think you're taking this for granted, but it's nearly insurmountable for, again, millions of people in America.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#332

Post by omouse »

branchless wrote: post #242
omouse wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about power, the sooner you understand that, the sooner you can negotiate better terms. And yes, they are just coders. Coders are bad at negotiating, they're bad at politics, they're missing out on earning ALL of their labor.

No company will pass on all your value. Capitalism mandates making a profit. A profit is made by capturing surplus value.

Of course that's why it's a negotiation.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#333

Post by camelNotation »

burkaman wrote: post #329
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My buddy from down south moved to Silicon Valley, with his wife and newborn baby. They camped in the State Park in a tent while he interviewed. It took moving, taking an entry-level job and doing whatever was asked for him to succeed.

That's great, but you're essentially describing the last steps of a successful transformation. How did he get the skills and experience to qualify for entry level jobs in Silicon Valley? How long was he interviewing, and how did he pay for food during this time? Did he have any savings or fallback plan in case he couldn't get a job? If so, how did he prepare that? How much did it cost to get his family to the valley,…

I'm not sure if you've ever been without money based on your questions. If you aren't making much money to begin with, there is no fallback plan or savings. It doesn't exist, whether you are going for a better job or not. You save just enough to do what you need to do and you risk everything to go. You pay for travel the cheapest way you can, usually on a bus of some sort. It's not a clean process.

I'll readily admit that there is a certain reprehensibility to those who insist that the poor are just lazy. Most poor people aren't lazy, they're just depressed, misinformed, and without hope. They are fundamentally disadvantaged.

However, that's not what is being said here. No one is contradicting that. What I'm saying is that despite their disadvantage, there are ways to escape. It's never going to be easy for them. They are never going to go from poverty to a six figure developer job, but no one in history has ever jumped directly from the bottom to the top without an extraordinary event or miracle.

John Adams said - "I am a soldier so my son can be a shop-keeper and so his son can be an artist."

The American dream is not overnight wealth. It's not wealth in even a single generation. It's the chance for more. Someone who is very poor can make the most important leap of all fairly easily: unskilled to skilled labor. They can go from the guy with nothing to offer to the guy who can run electrical wiring or the guy who can fix pipes and they can do this very cheaply in a very short amount of time. From there, they can earn enough to either go to college themselves, teach themselves, or pay for their kids to get ahead.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#334

Post by falsedan »

obstinate wrote: post #321
falsedan wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally refer to that as 'retiring'; financial independence usually means, "don't need to ask parents for small loans/handouts".

I mean it in the sense of being independent of employment for income. This is the common meaning in my circles.

That's 'retirement', living off your accumulated savings and guaranteed income.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#335

Post by falsedan »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #325
falsedan wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally refer to that as 'retiring'; financial independence usually means, "don't need to ask parents for small loans/handouts".

Financial independence is when time != money.

don't understand? children can't turn time into money, it sounds wrong to call them financially independent.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#336

Post by falsedan »

shostack wrote: post #312
falsedan wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally refer to that as 'retiring'; financial independence usually means, "don't need to ask parents for small loans/handouts".

I thought it meant having enough investments to live off dividends/interest/rent without having to touch your principle such that it continues growing on its own?

I think 'independently wealthy' describes that situation more clearly/less confusingly.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#337

Post by falsedan »

falsedan wrote: post #335
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial independence is when time != money.

don't understand? children can't turn time into money, it sounds wrong to call them financially independent.

Hi downvoter, I'm not going to increase my understanding of 'time != money' without some explanation. Could you please comment so I might learn something? thanks, --falsedan

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#338

Post by falsedan »

falsedan wrote: post #334
obstinate wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it in the sense of being independent of employment for income. This is the common meaning in my circles.

That's 'retirement', living off your accumulated savings and guaranteed income.

Hi downvoters, I don't understand why 'retirement' isn't an appropriate term, please help me grow my understanding by commenting instead. Thanks, --falsedan

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#339

Post by dpweb »

jackaltman wrote: post #54
dpweb wrote: post #50

There should be some further study in this area. I'm skeptical of the quoted costs of replacing employees and missed productivity ie.. 213%. Not to mention replacing poor performers can often be a value gain not loss. About cost, we're talking managers' time - but maybe hiring is most valuable thing they can be spending time on, other than directly generating revenue.

I agree with you -- I wrote this with regrettable turnover in mind. Parting ways with a low performer is definitely a valuable thing to do!

I see now - we're talking only regrettable employee losses. Thanks.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#340

Post by obstinate »

falsedan wrote: post #338
falsedan wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 'retirement', living off your accumulated savings and guaranteed income.

Hi downvoters, I don't understand why 'retirement' isn't an appropriate term, please help me grow my understanding by commenting instead. Thanks, --falsedan

Retirement is when you stop working. Financial independence is when you stop having to. They are different.
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