Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

731–740 of 797 posts

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#731

Post by dforrestwilson1 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #340
dforrestwilson1 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live within a rules-based system. For Manning the rule was "We'll give you this security clearance, here are 100 classes about not spilling the things you know to anyone else." I too am troubled by the decision, but it does seem a bit out of whack with the total lack of punishment for the higher echelons of government. Lately it seems like the rules-based system we have been living under is cracking.

Years in solitary confinement isn't "total lack of punishment". And an intelligence contractor flunky isn't "higher echelons"

I was referring to Powell and HRC. What were you referring to?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#732

Post by iaw »

ryanlol wrote: post #690
iaw wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Manning's intent and actions are far short of those of Snowden. Snowden leaked information on valid espionage programs and possibly gave Russia the keys to the castle when he fled the country. I used to think Snowden deserved a pardon, and had it only been about the warrantless wiretapping I would still feel that way, but he leaked a number of things that damaged US relations in ways that have been highly…

>possibly gave Russia the keys to the castle when he fled the country Might as well claim that he possibly coordinated the 9/11 attacks. It's also possible that he's secretly really old and shot Kennedy. There hasn't been a shred of evidence presented supporting these claims, and if you're going to make the claim you should back it up somehow.

For one, I don't appreciate your reductio ad absurdum[1] approach to discussion. Snowden would also have to be "secretly really old" to coordinate the 9/11 attacks and even then the claim is patently absurd.

Snowden had a cache of encrypted intelligence data. Intelligence agencies are fully capable of cracking encryption when properly motivated (in some cases they've backdoored them preemptively).

Ewen MacAskill, living in Europe and possessing the cache, would make a prime target for Russian intelligence. There is no proof that the Russians have his cache, but it's asinine to think that they don't given their overall espionage efforts.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#733

Post by MicroBerto »

KirinDave wrote: post #649
MicroBerto wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? The outright collusion with media? The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? The fact that they never discussed how to actually solve the Nation's problems, only worked on crafting a message to the public, and having "public and private" policies? The family connections to Russia that everyone conveniently ignores lately? Or most chilling of all, the c…

> Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? Not terribly, since we can see where a lot of it went and we're not terribly upset with the outcomes? > The outright collusion with media? Yeah emails that emails went emails really emails well emails, right emails? > The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? Clinton has a mixed track record on LGBT rights, but I trust her infinitely more than I do T…

At this point, I'd only like to know why you're making personal attacks on someone you've never met in order to support and defend a politician who's committed federal crimes -- one who you've likely also never met.

Might be time to step back and take a deep breath, my friend.

Have you actually read the emails in question? I've referenced them elsewhere in this thread.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#734

Post by afterburner »

MicroBerto wrote: post #728
afterburner wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What millions? The same collusion that had all media screaming about emails all the time? The default support for LGBT rights? What family connections to Russia?; were they in the same league as with Putin is doing with Trump? What codespeak are you talking about? You mean policies you don't personally like?

What millions? How about these: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8396 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADK... What Russia family connections? How about these: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927 (see page 61 of the attachment) https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1127 Why the concern if there's nothing to be concerned about? ( https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emai…

The Clinton Foundation donations were shown to be benign and not give any additional access to the Clintons. The Clinton foundation is a reputable charity that actually does good.

Or do you think that anytime money is mentioned bad things are happening? So then how do you feel about Trump?

Does simply having 'Russia' show up in a word search mean something sinister?

If you're like this about Clinton (much ado about nothing, exaggeration of any tiny mention of anything), why aren't you absolutely nuclear about Trump, who has actual solid links to actual corruption and potential treasonous behaviour?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#735

Post by Daviey »

lucozade wrote: post #695
Daviey wrote: post #478

So Assange is booking a flight to the US now? "If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ caseWikiLeaks added" - wikileaks [ https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 ]

> So Assange is booking a flight to the US now? Doubt it, he'd need to persuade the US government to seek his extradition first then convince the UK government that the US has preference over the existing EAW. That's quite a lot of persuading to get done just to ensure that a tweet comes to fruition. My guess is that he'll either keep schtum or come up with a narrative about how US Government still cares enough about…

"Assange is still happy to come to the US provided all his rights are guarenteed despite White House now saying Manning was not quid-quo-pro." - https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821753136692002816

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#736

Post by MicroBerto »

afterburner wrote: post #734
MicroBerto wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What millions? How about these: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8396 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADK... What Russia family connections? How about these: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927 (see page 61 of the attachment) https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1127 Why the concern if there's nothing to be concerned about? ( https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emai…

The Clinton Foundation donations were shown to be benign and not give any additional access to the Clintons. The Clinton foundation is a reputable charity that actually does good. Or do you think that anytime money is mentioned bad things are happening? So then how do you feel about Trump? Does simply having 'Russia' show up in a word search mean something sinister? If you're like this about Clinton (much ado about n…

Shown by who?

The Clinton Foundation does good? Like they did in Haiti, right??

It's okay, you just haven't dug deep enough. The key is understanding where the proposed pipelines are located. Hint: they're in line with various overthrown governments; not coincidental.

Note that I'm not saying you should dig any deeper, as it's not exactly productive time and this is the job of the investigators, but it's interesting to watch play out.

Best question lately is "Where is Eric Braverman?"...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#737

Post by burkaman »

notpc wrote: post #585
burkaman wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think is the appropriate sentence for this crime?

35 years with the possibility of parole in 10 years seemed pretty reasonable to me.

Why? Do you think 35 years is a greater deterrent than 15 years? Or are you concerned about rehabilitation? What is the logic?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#738

Post by KirinDave »

MicroBerto wrote: post #733
KirinDave wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? Not terribly, since we can see where a lot of it went and we're not terribly upset with the outcomes? > The outright collusion with media? Yeah emails that emails went emails really emails well emails, right emails? > The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? Clinton has a mixed track record on LGBT rights, but I trust her infinitely more than I do T…

At this point, I'd only like to know why you're making personal attacks on someone you've never met in order to support and defend a politician who's committed federal crimes -- one who you've likely also never met. Might be time to step back and take a deep breath, my friend. Have you actually read the emails in question? I've referenced them elsewhere in this thread.

I've read most of the Wikileaks materials. I've taken them with a grain of salt because there is strong evidence that Assange does not have control of Wikileaks, and therefore it's very difficult to trust the entirely of the corpus.

Even if I take all of them as 100% verified, I am certainly not "chilled" the way you are. Nor do I think having IT fuckups should be a federal crime. Given how shit both R and D party security is, I suspect the private email servers are actually afforded a bit of security by being obscure.

And the only aspersion I've thrown your way is that this allegation of "codespeak" is rubbish and lead people to dangerous actions on the grounds of "PizzaGate". I don't agree with your picture of reality, but I think you're an adult capable of recognizing this and therefore should be responsible for your viewpoints in a public discussion forum you choose to engage in.

If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't reply. You wouldn't be responsible for your actions.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#739

Post by ionised »

meowface wrote: post #482
revelation wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some serious amnesia in this thread. But the reaction is all too common, people who just go "we knew all of that already" and switch back to sports while others out there risk their life to produce the documents that can bring about actual change. Even if you don't care for the content of the cables, the fact that an estimated 3 million people have access to them with nothing worth mentioning in the form of access co…

> the fact that an estimated 3 million people have access to them with nothing worth mentioning in the form of access control should give you serious pause. The 1% are real, they are just not all billionaires. Ok... there are probably far, far worse hidden scandals in terms of access control/data security in the US government. I don't see your point. I don't think that's the point anyone was trying to make. It's bad,…

> NSA surveillance leaks could (and, to a small extent, did) bring about actual change. The cables accomplished nothing positive for anyone.

I don't know, it taught me a lot about the US attitude towards the rest of the world. I feel that is worth knowing.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#740

Post by DonHopkins »

Buge wrote: post #658
DonHopkins wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the US murdered innocent civilians was highly embarrassing and hurt the interests of the US, not the fact that Manning leaked that information itself. Punish the murderers, not the messengers. The only people were actually harmed were the innocent children and journalists on the receiving end of US machine guns.

Did the diplomatic cables contain information that the US murdered innocent civilians?

The more important question is: did the US murder innocent civilians? It's not about the cables or the messenger or the medium or the style and presentation, it's about the murdered innocent civilians.

The debt we owe Manning for exposing the fact that the US murdered innocent civilians far outweighs the damage she did by releasing the cables. The prosecution couldn't identify anyone who was harmed, beyond those innocents harmed by the US government machine guns, which wasn't Manning's fault.

Post reply on HN