Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate • Hacker News Board

Re: Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate

#151

Post by ionised » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 11:55 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #123

clairity wrote: post #72

i'd say our political machine in the US has done a great job for the last 35 years at distracting us from the biggest social threat of our times: wealth disparity. instead, the public conversations revolve around terrorism, who uses which bathroom, twitter, celebrities, and even health insurance. if recent political movements (tea party, the 99%) and national elections have taught us anything, it's that this is incre…

>biggest social threat of our times: wealth disparity Serious question, not trolling: why does wealth disparity matter? Let's say you start the year barely having enough to eat and are living in a cardboard box and you end the year with plenty of food and a small house, why would it matter if your neighbor gets to eat steak once a week and has a slightly nicer house? Surely the absolute fact that your are better off…

That's not the kind of wealth disparity he's talking about.

Re: Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate

#152

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:26 PM UTC

jedikv wrote: post #150

maxxxxx wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty unique to America. I can't imagine any German to be as fervently for against Merkel or the CDU like Americans are for or against their party. In many countries I can have spirited political discussions over a wide range of topics without people feeling personally offended. That's simply not possible in the US.

Tribalism is ingrained in the human psyche. If you're not noticing it, that's probably a bad sign.

Like most things in life there is a wide range of levels of tribalism. American politics is on a very high level of tribalism, more than a lot of other countries.

To quote you: If you are not noticing that, that's probably a bad sign (for what? Can you explain that?)

Re: Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate

#153

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:27 PM UTC

lobf wrote: post #148

pdeuchler wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more of it had to do with a systemic and institutional plan of action to prevent any politician who gave voice to those concerns from achieving success in the primaries

What plan is this?

The treatment Sanders got could demonstrate that.

Re: Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate

#154

Post by eevilspock » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 8:43 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #112

clairity wrote: post #72

i'd say our political machine in the US has done a great job for the last 35 years at distracting us from the biggest social threat of our times: wealth disparity. instead, the public conversations revolve around terrorism, who uses which bathroom, twitter, celebrities, and even health insurance. if recent political movements (tea party, the 99%) and national elections have taught us anything, it's that this is incre…

why is wealth disparity the biggest social threat? Economic rent I can see being concern, especially when regulatory capture is involved, but there are many reasons for increasing wealth disparity that are completely fair. Many of those being rewarded with wealth have built and led companies that have improved productivity and allowed many of those on the other side of the wealth divide to do more with less. Is it no…

No. It may be fair to compensate people for greater effort. But the person who was born tall does not deserve a greater share of the coconuts just because only he can reach them.

Our system not only greatly rewards/punishes circumstance of birth, it further rewards those who leverage their luck to secure more even advantage, while the unlucky are forced to compete with each other in a race to the bottom for the scraps.

Re: Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate

#155

Post by eevilspock » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 8:50 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #123

clairity wrote: post #72

i'd say our political machine in the US has done a great job for the last 35 years at distracting us from the biggest social threat of our times: wealth disparity. instead, the public conversations revolve around terrorism, who uses which bathroom, twitter, celebrities, and even health insurance. if recent political movements (tea party, the 99%) and national elections have taught us anything, it's that this is incre…

>biggest social threat of our times: wealth disparity Serious question, not trolling: why does wealth disparity matter? Let's say you start the year barely having enough to eat and are living in a cardboard box and you end the year with plenty of food and a small house, why would it matter if your neighbor gets to eat steak once a week and has a slightly nicer house? Surely the absolute fact that your are better off…

Because it isn't simply about material wealth. Money is power. People with money have a far greater say in shaping our world, and have more freedom. Conversely those with little have little say and little freedom. Even the part of our society that is supposed to be egalitarian regardless of wealth or station, our government, is ruled by those with money. "One person, one vote" means nothing in a society where money buys elections and elected officials.

It's about having a fair and free society. Would you rather have a gourmet dinner every night in prison, or a PB&J in a free and egalitarian community?

Re: Authoritarians Distract Rather Than Debate

#156

Post by jedikv » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 11:25 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #152

jedikv wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tribalism is ingrained in the human psyche. If you're not noticing it, that's probably a bad sign.

Like most things in life there is a wide range of levels of tribalism. American politics is on a very high level of tribalism, more than a lot of other countries. To quote you: If you are not noticing that, that's probably a bad sign (for what? Can you explain that?)

Bad sign that you may be deeply within one side or another which can blind you to the bigger picture.

From cursory observation of various political engagements around the world, it's all very similarly tribalistic - whether it be over the top rhetoric that appeal to emotion - or in some cases violent. Heck look at the rise of the far right support in various EU states. Politics is very often personal, so people will take it personally.

The only real difference is America takes up all the media oxygen given it's position in the world stage.