Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#621

Post by LargeCompanies » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:25 AM UTC

This is great ... his life compared to Snowden has been horrid!

On a different note I never bought he wants to be a woman just a PR thing to keep his name, plight and fight in the public eye. Maybe in five years or so his story will be told and we will see him as a him not a woman.

*This is getting downvoted? I'm sure your now aware of fake news which is created to push agendas and or make money. Thus, I don't believe much of what I see and read and this always seemed far-fetch to me and that it was so out there at the time that it was made up by those helping him. It allowed him to fight for transgender rights and remain in the public eye ... what other way could Manning in solitary confinement have maintained his visibility in the public and coral as much help to free him? This was great PR ... from someone who has created fake news and such to benefit their start up!

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#622

Post by asveikau » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:27 AM UTC

MicroBerto wrote: post #558

afterburner wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the Hillary e-mails are actually very chilling when you start reading through them" What chilled you, specifically?

Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? The outright collusion with media? The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? The fact that they never discussed how to actually solve the Nation's problems, only worked on crafting a message to the public, and having "public and private" policies? The family connections to Russia that everyone conveniently ignores lately? Or most chilling of all, the c…

> The family connections to Russia that everyone conveniently ignores lately?

Remind me, which side of that election is now alleged to have been talking to FSB the whole time?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#623

Post by afterburner » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:41 AM UTC

MicroBerto wrote: post #558

afterburner wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the Hillary e-mails are actually very chilling when you start reading through them" What chilled you, specifically?

Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? The outright collusion with media? The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? The fact that they never discussed how to actually solve the Nation's problems, only worked on crafting a message to the public, and having "public and private" policies? The family connections to Russia that everyone conveniently ignores lately? Or most chilling of all, the c…

What millions? The same collusion that had all media screaming about emails all the time? The default support for LGBT rights? What family connections to Russia?; were they in the same league as with Putin is doing with Trump? What codespeak are you talking about? You mean policies you don't personally like?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#624

Post by afterburner » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:41 AM UTC

markdown wrote: post #321

afterburner wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the Hillary e-mails are actually very chilling when you start reading through them" What chilled you, specifically?

Collusion with the media and a debate moderator should chill anyone. Add to that the fact that the DNC basically anointed her by not giving Sanders a fair shake... democrats were told who to vote for using the media to give them the illusion of free choice. Put another way, the emails revealed that it's very possibly that Trump will be President because Clinton had corrupted the DNC.

Yeah, the media really did her a favour by talking about emails all the time. Totally in the tank for her.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#625

Post by NotSammyHagar » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:42 AM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

The pentagon papers were released in 2011. A wikipedia search would have found the complete set at the national archives: https://www.archives.gov/research/pentagon-papers.

I believe they wanted to keep this secret not because it hurt us to leak some secret, it was to hide the fact that every president from Truman on had lied about their actions to get us more involved in vietnam. It's still pretty shocking today. Read the wikipedia page for more info.

I don't think it will happen, but I'd be happy if Obama were somehow able to legally forgive Snowden for his whistle blowing also.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#626

Post by afterburner » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:42 AM UTC

markdown wrote: post #570

fullshark wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is it was clear Clinton was winning before the race was over based on polling, superdelegates, and what states were remaining. The DNC wanted to discuss (privately) how to limit damage to HRC from Sanders attacks before the general. These sort of private discussion are totally reasonable for an organization like the DNC to have before the primary was 100% over cause they could see the writing on the wall. I…

> The issue is it was clear Clinton was winning before the race was over based on polling, superdelegates, and what states were remaining. And the reason for that was because she was heavily pushed as the candidate by CNN, MSNBC, etc while the same media ignored Sanders. That it only became clear later that this media had relations with the Clinton campaign and DNC beyond just the personal biases of pundits is cause…

No way, the media knew the Clintons? I mean she just came out of nowhere!

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#627

Post by NotSammyHagar » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:45 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #423

DonHopkins wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the US murdered innocent civilians was highly embarrassing and hurt the interests of the US, not the fact that Manning leaked that information itself. Punish the murderers, not the messengers. The only people were actually harmed were the innocent children and journalists on the receiving end of US machine guns.

This exactly. Governments do need to be held accountable for secret crimes, secrecy should not be allowed to enable continuing those crimes. Exposing them was necessary, even if it was illegal. I do think Manning was naive and sloppy for handing the whole thing over to Assange, though in her defense, Assange seemed fairly reasonable and responsible at the time. It's only after this enormous leak that he seems to have…

Thank you for your comments. You have it exactly right, re-affirming my hope that the world is not doomed. Another example in line with what you said, having secret prisons that we kidnapped people and took them to and tortured them during the second bush war in Iraq hurt the US. It hurt because because we had secret prisons.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#628

Post by NotSammyHagar » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:51 AM UTC

Also I haven't heard anyone talk about how the UN and outside observers stated that Manning was tortured during her (not sure of the right pronoun, for pre-operative) prison time before the trial. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin.... That should never happen, even if you are guilty. This happened with Obama was president. I know he has a mixed record, but I have never understood his aspect of not being able to change the military-spy-industrial complex more. I don't believe he's afraid of them. I just think he has so much stuff to do, to face up to, one person can't change it all.

Well, we can work toward changing it, if we elect people who want to change.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#629

Post by hackuser » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:56 AM UTC

astronautjones wrote: post #587

hackuser wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason is that the Democrats don't have a good "bench." Obama led the Democrats to political disaster; I wonder if any party since WWII has been in as bad a political position. Why would they want his continued leadership after he leaves office?

No, the DNC led the Democrats to political disaster by discouraging anyone other than HRC from running, and running an atrociously hubris-filled campaign

> No, the DNC led the Democrats ...

The President is the head of the party; the DNC traditionally is run by his people AFAIK.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#630

Post by NotSammyHagar » Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:56 AM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #165

karmacondon wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, a whistle blower must reveal evidence of the commission of a crime. The term does not extend to "actions by the government that I disagree with" or "things that violate my personal interpretations of the Constitution" If you misuse the term, you make it more difficult for legitimate whistle blowers to get the protection they deserve.

Murder, torture, blanket domestic spying etc., are not (or have not recently been) considered crimes when the federal government is the actor. The line isn't so clear.

But what we have seen is that the govt violated the rules that were supposed to constrain them, hiding the illegal acts they committed. They fight to avoid having court cases address the true legality.