How much does employee turnover really cost? • Hacker News Board

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#131

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

bbcbasic wrote: post #78

jedrek wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to management seminars where they downplay the importance of money, saying that employees are mostly motivated by other factors. Then I talk to my co-workers, the ones that are quitting, and about half of them leave because they've been working for 2+ years without a raise. I worked at a company where a company decided to introduce a new management program (LEAN) into one department. That 16 person departme…

Money is a factor - weighted differently for different people. E.g. person A generally wants to be happy in their job, but needs $100k to maintain their lifestyle, pay the mortgage, not worry about bills etc. If paid $100k they wouldn't jump ship. Later, person A has a baby. Well guess what happens next. Person B also wants to be happy in their job, but they also want to invest in stocks for an early retirement. They…

[deleted]

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#132

Post by 2xlbuds » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #20

> "Instead, focus on growth, impact, and care" Since a lot of tech companies employ young talent (relative to other industries), this video by Simon Sinek on "Millennials in the Workplace" can be enlightening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU Forewarning, he goes off the deep end on a few points, but IMO the general ideas are valid.

I've seen this talk before, and he makes a ton of assertions mostly backed by often-repeated cliches rather than data (e.g. participation trophies). This is a really good talk I've seen posted in response to this very video before, so I'll post it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFwok9SlQQ

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#133

Post by basseq » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #37

Balgair wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On 2: Ok all, why do diagonal promotions occur? I understand the issues around promoting when there is no room in the org chart, but I don't understand the issues with pay. Employees will shop the resume around, that is expected these days. And as the article points out, there are massive costs to a firm when those good employees up and leave. So why not just give a raise? Maybe you don't have the budget, I get that,…

Often, it's because neither the company nor the employee really knows what the market rate actually is. There is little industry agreement on what titles mean (SR engineer, for example isn't universally the same job). And...both sides are incented to either over or under state market rate.

Well put. Not to mention the disconnect between market rate ("the average of salaries for similar positions in Market X") and individual rate ("the amount you can get in Market X given your skills and experience").

Fundamentally, you are worth whatever someone will pay you. If you can negotiate an offer for 20% over market rate, congrats, that's your personal market value. Conversely, if you're currently paid 20% under market value and can't find another job, the same applies.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#134

Post by milliondollar » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #110

beat wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money doesn't motivate people past, oh, a half million or so a year, maybe.

Yes it does, actually. Not because it leads to any noticeable quality of life improvement, but because at those levels it becomes a pissing contest with other high-earners. Some rich people care a LOT about making more than other rich people in their social/work circle.

Yes but if you have the intestinal fortitude to check out of those pissing contests you can really create your own life. That is, if you are lucky enough to be at level to start.

I did note that many of my peers where COMPLETELY freaked out by my decision that I mentioned above. My choice to step back from the game freaked them out. No over aggression but a mix of outright confusion as well as somewhat confused jealousy.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#135

Post by bubblesocks » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

camelNotation wrote: post #91

krapp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now, all you need is intelligence and mental fluidity to weather hardships. No longer is a job loss catastrophic. Just about anyone born in a Western nation can, if he decides to, gain an education and make his way up the social ladder. What Western nation do you live in? Because in the Western nation I live in, both job loss and education can be catastrophic for many people.

If it's catastrophic, you're probably not taking advantage of the resources available. I know many people who feel pigeon-holed or trapped simply because they are unaware of how insanely easy it is to drop what you're doing, go to school, and get hired elsewhere. There are so many resources and options out there if you're willing to weather the change. Most people are just too scared to consider it and they misinterp…

Exactly! I switched careers by doing nothing more than studying in my local library, and then applying for jobs once I felt I was ready to interview.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#136

Post by phaus » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #123

phaus wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you are correct, which I suspect you are, that means the group of people that aren't really motivated by money make up a tiny percentage of the work force. Therefore anyone running a business can safely disregard any idiot making the claim that money isn't a motivator, except on the rare occasions which they find themselves hiring executives that make north of $500k. For normal people, its infuriating to hea…

I was strongly influenced in my thinking by Jason Cohen's "Rich vs King" article, he talks about the S-curve of wealth utilization. Once you hit a few million in the bank, you have enough money to fund a reasonably lavish lifestyle, without working, for the rest of your life. At that point, how do you motivate someone?

I make low 6 figures doing network security. If I hit 200k, literally the only thing you could do to motivate me would be to treat me well and give me interesting things to do.

Fortunately, my employer already does both of those. I just wish it wasn't almost a requirement to leave in order to get a decent raise.

Note: I'm not expecting to make $200k in a technical role as a security analyst any time soon, its just hypothetical.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#137

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #113

battlebot wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet isn't it just slightly odd how software consulting rates were the same 17 years ago as they are now? And there was all that inflation in the interim...hmmm...

Funny, the rates for folks on embedded just keep going up ...

In my experience the rates for folks on embedded are way below market rates for the rest of the field.

Anecdotally one guy I know quit embedded to do rails development and doubled his paycheck.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#138

Post by rorski » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

What is the cost to companies of letting demoralized employees stick around to wait for options/RSU/bonuses to vest? I'm in the process of leaving a company now where I've been watching this happen for the better part of two years, and I keep wondering how much more productive and successful we could have been if those people had been let go and filled with some new, motivated recruits.

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#139

Post by vacri » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #85

_yosefk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing few would book a management consultant simply telling to pay people more money - consultants who want a job instead have to explain how to motivate for free. But the people who share a lot of the blame for this idiocy and who have no good excuse are "heterodox economists" and TED talk presenters telling us how money doesn't motivate people past a certain point, or how it actually makes people less creati…

Money doesn't motivate people past, oh, a half million or so a year, maybe.

Wasn't there a talk show host that was complaining on air about how it was so hard to live in Washington DC on 'only' $500k?

Re: How much does employee turnover really cost?

#140

Post by protomyth » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #118

protomyth wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anthropologists don't commonly live in mud huts, that's just a prejudice. Where the heck did that come from. I'm well aware of cultural anthropology and have worked with a couple on academic grants. I just think those more familiar with oral tradition of tribes would have an amazing time in a software company. Also, just for your information, not all tribes live in mud huts, that's just a prejudice.

The mud hut was intended as a sideswipe at the fairly large HN faction that believes that only the hard sciences are a worthwhile pursuit and that the arts and humanities are for penniless losers. Also, Nigel Barley's Notes from a Mud Hut . (Yes, now I realize how the previous comment can be misunderstood, sardonic groans don't translate into written text.)

I probably wouldn't have taken quite the offense if I wasn't actually typing this from a reservation in the US. My first vision of tribal is a bit different.