Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

neurosciencenews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#61

Post by hawski »

jdietrich wrote: post #50
thesz wrote: post #12

The people who cannot spend energy to control themselves and therefore curse are less prone to using self-control-dependent strategy of lies and deception. Wowsers.

I don't swear because I lack self-control. I swear because those words are powerful and useful. "Bullshit" is an immeasurably better word than any of the alternatives. Some people are entirely deserving of the label "arsehole" or "bastard". I fundamentally distrust people who don't swear. To me it has always signalled priggishness, timidity and conformity. People who see swearing as a sign of poor education or a limi…

Swearing may be honest, because you speak what you think. At the same time it may be like a fire hose. I would prefer more distilled thoughts.

One of my previous superiors sweared a lot, but when there was something to clarify the conversation took another route. I could ask him a question and then he would freeze and not even a sound would come out of his mouth. The silence could take such a while that I would start to think that maybe he haven't heared me. Then he would slowly and steadly respond - usually not needing to stop midsentence to reformulate (as I usually do). Those calm responses usually did not contain swearing. There where a few colleagues that would just not stop talking until he would respond and then he would tell them to shut up.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#62

Post by majkinetor »

I always liked that Linus Torvalds uses so much of profanity (he also stated that cursing is part of Finnish culture). It alienated some people (see https://goo.gl/JBESqf):

> Sarah, first off, I don't have that many tools at hand. Secondly, I simply don't believe in being polite or politically correct. And you can point at all those cultural factors where some cultures are not happy with confrontation (and feel free to make it about gender too—I think that's almost entirely cultural too). And please bring up "cultural sensitivity" while at it. And I'll give you back that same "cultural sensitivity". Please be sensitive to _my_ culture too.

> Because if you want me to "act professional," I can tell you that I'm not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearing a bathrobe. The same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm also not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what "acting professionally" results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.

---

My opinion is that people who are not flexible enough to accept few fucks in the conversation are generally those that I don't want to work with - they are usually borring to me and often don't convey impact of the problem with appropriate strength.

Political correctness is such paradoxical bullshit. Ofcourse, as in any domain, people who are extreme in such behavior are generally harmful but that should not be argument against anything.

Besides being more honest, recent study found that profane people have more diverse vocabulary (https://goo.gl/GIEhKD) and are probably perceived as being more intelligent.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#63

Post by taeric »

bshimmin wrote: post #60
zer0t3ch wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a load of shit Your comment is anecdotal proof that profanity doesn't have jack shit to do with anger.

fucking used as an adverb is an intensifier which quite plainly does often express anger. If I say to my colleague, "Have you finished that task yet?", or I say, "Have you fucking finished that task yet?", which is angrier?

Tone conveys more than the words, there. Consider, you can say that with amusement or exasperation as easily as anger.

This is somewhat self fulfilling and prone to confirmation bias, though. For me, it is just as often for shock/surprise. Probably more so just plain frustration.

What does intrigue me is when people have substitution words they often use. Unless you believe in magic, I don't understand the logic.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#64

Post by taeric »

milesf wrote: post #47
taeric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realized later that I left out a smiley, or better evidence of humor. Hopefully it was taken as intended by everyone!

It's all good :) I'm simply stating my opinion, and I'll hold to it. Profanity and anger are not two "qualities" I look for in people, either as co-workers or friends. I'm not saying I will not work with or be friends with people who swear, but it is simply a red flag for me.

Nothing wrong with red flags. Just remember to question your own flags periodically. And try not to let any one dominate decisions. My guess would be that it becomes easier to deceive people that have stuck to a given rubric for a long time.

I think of it as periodic regularization. Though, easier said than done.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#65

Post by Bulkington »

jdietrich wrote: post #50
thesz wrote: post #12

The people who cannot spend energy to control themselves and therefore curse are less prone to using self-control-dependent strategy of lies and deception. Wowsers.

I don't swear because I lack self-control. I swear because those words are powerful and useful. "Bullshit" is an immeasurably better word than any of the alternatives. Some people are entirely deserving of the label "arsehole" or "bastard". I fundamentally distrust people who don't swear. To me it has always signalled priggishness, timidity and conformity. People who see swearing as a sign of poor education or a limi…

As someone who grew up in a home in which no one swore or used profanity, I'd argue that for me to have adopted common vulgarity from the schoolyard would've been 'conformity.' That, and I was fully capable of kicking the ass of any bully who challenged my being too 'timid' to speak inappropriately. Indeed, vulgarity from privileged white young males is a cliche of token rebellion. Or it was a generation ago--kind of like surburban white kids affecting gangsta slang today. You're dismissed.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#66

Post by TheCoelacanth »

pocketsquare2 wrote: post #49
dathanb82 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's a very large pool, it's almost certainly not random.

What sample size or methodology for the question at hand would satisfy you at this point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Exactitude_in_Science

A few hundred randomly selected people would give more certainty than billions that aren't randomly selected.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#67

Post by milesf »

taeric wrote: post #64
milesf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all good :) I'm simply stating my opinion, and I'll hold to it. Profanity and anger are not two "qualities" I look for in people, either as co-workers or friends. I'm not saying I will not work with or be friends with people who swear, but it is simply a red flag for me.

Nothing wrong with red flags. Just remember to question your own flags periodically. And try not to let any one dominate decisions. My guess would be that it becomes easier to deceive people that have stuck to a given rubric for a long time. I think of it as periodic regularization. Though, easier said than done.

Of course, which is why they're called flags, not judgements or decisions. I do have friends who swear all the time. They know I don't, but that's my choice not theirs. When I catch those friends censoring themselves around me, I remind them that I "want them to just be themselves around me".

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#68

Post by milesf »

taeric wrote: post #63
bshimmin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fucking used as an adverb is an intensifier which quite plainly does often express anger. If I say to my colleague, "Have you finished that task yet?", or I say, "Have you fucking finished that task yet?", which is angrier?

Tone conveys more than the words, there. Consider, you can say that with amusement or exasperation as easily as anger. This is somewhat self fulfilling and prone to confirmation bias, though. For me, it is just as often for shock/surprise. Probably more so just plain frustration. What does intrigue me is when people have substitution words they often use. Unless you believe in magic, I don't understand the logic.

Yeah, those are called 'minced oaths' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minced_oath

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#69

Post by dathanb82 »

pocketsquare2 wrote: post #49
dathanb82 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's a very large pool, it's almost certainly not random.

What sample size or methodology for the question at hand would satisfy you at this point? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Exactitude_in_Science

A huge sample size does not necessarily mean a good sample. While it's difficult to say what the impact of sampling only from a group of people who self-select into a given population, it's clearly a bias. If a quarter of the population self-selects into Facebook, I'd prefer a sample that includes three times as many people who didn't.

If nothing else, it's worth considering the demographics: within the USA, women use Facebook at a higher rate than men; people with some college education use Facebook at a higher rate than either college graduates or adults who've never been to college; Facebook use rate is roughly negatively correlated with income level; use of Facebook is negatively correlated with age (http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/11/11/social-media-update-20...). So the leftover US population skews male and slightly higher-income than the Facebook population. And globally, Facebook use is correlated with national wealth (minus some outliers). So there's clearly a sampling bias, and that's worth understanding.

That said, whether the results would be any different is hard (impossible?) to say without actually trying a different sampling methodology, and I suspect the results from this study are valid, sampling bias notwithstanding.

Re: Study Finds Link Between Profanity and Honesty

#70

Post by zer0t3ch »

Diederich wrote: post #36
zer0t3ch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, I assume you would still try to swear less in an interview, no?

I read the interviewer carefully, which often leads me to be comfortable with some amount of profanity. This is actually pretty much the same approach I take all the time, with everyone.

Makes sense.
Post reply on HN