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GIMP – 2016 in review

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Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#101

Post by RUG3Y »

fizixer wrote: post #93

I used to be very good with MS-Paint when I used Windows XP. When I switched to linux, I didn't find a single program that has equivalent functionality with equivalent ease, though there are many (including GIMP) that can do much more but the basic stuff (MS-Paint level) isn't as easy (e.g., the pixel perfect precision, Pinta by default does some blurring so pixel editing needs tweaking it a bit). Is there any guide…

Paint.NET is a really good equivalent to paint: http://www.getpaint.net/index.html

It's much more powerful than the old paint program, but much simpler than Gimp. It only works on Windows though, so it may not work for you.

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#102

Post by RUG3Y »

andreyk wrote: post #96
fizixer wrote: post #93

I used to be very good with MS-Paint when I used Windows XP. When I switched to linux, I didn't find a single program that has equivalent functionality with equivalent ease, though there are many (including GIMP) that can do much more but the basic stuff (MS-Paint level) isn't as easy (e.g., the pixel perfect precision, Pinta by default does some blurring so pixel editing needs tweaking it a bit). Is there any guide…

Not a direct answer to your question, but a recommendation for something to try: I always install KolourPaint on every linux machine I use, for me it achieves MS-Paint like functionality quite well.

I've never tried KolourPaint, but now I'm going to. Thanks!

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#104

Post by FreakyT »

LordWinstanley wrote: post #103

Three words why The Gimp isn't taken seriously by anyone who uses Photoshop: "Non-Destructive Editing" [Oh yes. The interface is awful, too]

> The interface is awful, too

It's really a shame. As an example, it's been more than a decade and they still haven't fixed the utterly absurd "layer boundaries" system that it has. There's a reason no other image editor does that, and it's because it makes no sense.

(To elaborate, every layer in GIMP has a defined "boundary rectangle" which cannot be drawn outside of.)

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#105

Post by Joeboy »

phaemon wrote: post #90
Joeboy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this thing about GIMP having a UI that's _objectively_ bad is just unsupportable IMO. I don't mind GIMP's UI being different from Photoshop. I last used Photoshop over a decade ago and that would be plenty of time to adjust to any good UI. The things that annoy me about GIMP's UI are things like the focus always being in the wrong place so I have to use the mouse, or windows being placed over things I need to s…

> things like the focus always being in the wrong place so I have to use the mouse, or windows being placed over things I need to see But both of these are things that are fixed with Single Window Mode (which it's clear you know about). Complaining about a UI issue that has already been fixed does seem a bit ungrateful. > or having to reselect my font styling every time I retype something Ok, fair enough. That one is…

> But both of these are things that are fixed with Single Window Mode (which it's clear you know about).

They aren't entirely gone though. Eg. if I find my chosen font in the font selector, click it or press enter to select it, and continue typing I'll end up with "Nimbus Sans Lsomerandomtext" in the font selection box.

Another example - the default shortcut for "Show / hide docks" is Tab, which is also the shortcut to cycle between tools. So which of those things happens depends on what part of the screen happens to be focused.

It's true that Single Window Mode made a lot of those sorts of problems go away, and possibly I'm holding on to the years of frustration at Gimp people saying there was no problem before it was finally introduced.

I didn't know the two font boxes did different things, I always used the one in the floating selector. Thanks for clarifying the behaviour. The floating selector is generally a source of annoyance for me. I can move it up or down, but that'll also move my text. So if I want to see what's under it while typing, as far as I know I'm SOL. Maybe there's some way to turn it off or make it behave differently?

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#106

Post by Joeboy »

FreakyT wrote: post #104
LordWinstanley wrote: post #103

Three words why The Gimp isn't taken seriously by anyone who uses Photoshop: "Non-Destructive Editing" [Oh yes. The interface is awful, too]

> The interface is awful, too It's really a shame. As an example, it's been more than a decade and they still haven't fixed the utterly absurd "layer boundaries" system that it has. There's a reason no other image editor does that, and it's because it makes no sense . (To elaborate, every layer in GIMP has a defined "boundary rectangle" which cannot be drawn outside of.)

Maybe this is a good example to talk about good and bad UI.

There are UIs that are easy to learn, but less efficient in daily use.

There are UIs that are difficult to learn, but efficient in daily use by experienced users.

Good UIs steer an appropriate course between those options, according to the needs of their users.

GIMP's "boundary rectangle" system provides a learning barrier for new users, and a regular annoyance for experienced users. If people don't like it, the problem isn't that they're Adobe shills, the problem is that it's indefensibly bad.

OK I guess it saves some ram if you need to run GIMP on a Raspberry Pi, but this is not a sensible thing for GIMP to be optimizing for.

I fully accept that it's run by volunteers and it's OSS and I could patch it myself etc. I don't blame the volunteer devs for not making a perfect program in their spare time. But I wish people would lay off blaming discontent with GIMP's UI on the unsuitability of its users or the existence of Photoshop.

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#107

Post by chris_wot »

RUG3Y wrote: post #99
Freak_NL wrote: post #5

I don't use the GIMP nearly as much as Inkscape (the two form an awesome free software graphics suite together), but I am always pleasantly surprised by the gradual improvements — the layer improvements look useful! What really impresses me though is how the GIMP has managed to remain such a constant ever-present factor on the free software desktop. It feels as if it has just always been there. Kudos to all the devel…

I love Gimp and Inkscape. The Gimp vs Photoshop debate is irrelevant to me because I can't afford Photoshop - it's Gimp or nothing for me.

Same here, but I am now genuinely interested to know what advantage Photoshop has over The Gimp nowadays?

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#108

Post by Blaaguuu »

chris_wot wrote: post #107
RUG3Y wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Gimp and Inkscape. The Gimp vs Photoshop debate is irrelevant to me because I can't afford Photoshop - it's Gimp or nothing for me.

Same here, but I am now genuinely interested to know what advantage Photoshop has over The Gimp nowadays?

For me, it still mostly comes down to usability. A big part of it is probably that I just have more experience with Photoshop, and if I really forced myself to use The GIMP more, it might grow on me... But when I am working in Photoshop I always feel incredibly productive, where as whenever I have to use The GIMP, I feel like the interface is constantly fighting against me, trying to keep me from getting my work done.

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#109

Post by Joeboy »

MikeTaylor wrote: post #94
Zardoz84 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can "Export" on any format :P

I know you can. But for someone who mostly uses GIMP to crop screenshots, for example, the workflow is used to be: 1. Load PNG 2. Edit PNG 3. Save PNG 4. Quit Now it's 1. Load PNG 2. Edit PNG 3. Export as PNG (retyping the extension) 4. Quit 5. Say that yes, you do want to quit even though there are unsaved changes (because there are not). 6. Worry about whether there really WERE unsaved changes after all. I fully un…

Alt-F + W will save your file back to the original file.

(or File menu + "Overwrite {filename}". I complain a lot about GIMP's UI but I don't really see a problem here.

Re: GIMP – 2016 in review

#110

Post by chris_wot »

dagw wrote: post #30
blt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Count me as one Photoshop user who avoids GIMP because it lacks non-destructive editing. Photoshop had Adjustment Layers since 1996, and using them is a widely accepted best practice. It is hard to imagine a valid reason why GIMP developers have taken so long to implement them.

It is hard to imagine a valid reason why GIMP developers have taken so long to implement them. Time. It's not that they're unaware of the importance of non-destructive editing. But adding it to GIMP required a pretty complete overhaul of the underlying architecture, which ended up taking much more time than initially anticipated. Basically the developers had to choose between completely stopping the development of GI…

That was a wise decision. The LibreOffice team have essentially been doing the same thing.
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