Theresa May: UK must leave European single market • Hacker News Board

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#221

Post by digi_owl » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

emptyfile wrote: post #200

harryf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I want my money back!" Margret Thatcher at the European Union summit in Dublin in 1980 "That such an unnecessary and irrational project as building a European superstate was ever embarked upon will seem in future years to be perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era. And that Britain, with her traditional strengths and global destiny, should ever have been part of it will appear a political error of historic magn…

Right, which is why the UK, very successfully, blocked every attempt at EU integration and secured opt outs out of Euro and Schengen for itself. As a European, I believe I'm not alone in thinking it's great that the biggest obstacle to EU integration is leaving the EU, we're just all very puzzled as to why considering the UK had the best deal possible in the EU.

Thing is, and it took me all too long to learn this, Schengen is not what enables foreign workers to enter another EU member nation. It just makes it easier.

The Brexit yes came overwhelmingly form the old industrial areas of UK. From the towns and such that has seen their quality of life stagnate or deteriorate while the jobs gets done by foreigners that come by the busload.

Damn it, i don't live in UK but i have seen the phenomena myself. A local wharf some years back had a boom year, and the the peak there were perhaps twice as many foreigners working there as locals.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#222

Post by kamjam » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #139

ar0 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't this in many ways actually even more risky? When Parliament gets its vote, the two year exit period will almost certainly be almost over and a vote of Parliament will not be able to stop the exit. Instead it will be a vote on the new arrangements with the EU. So either they just have to rubberstamp whatever gets put to them or - if they vote down these new arrangements - Britain will be left outside of the…

The two year exit period can't start until parliament votes, because May doesn't have the authority to trigger Article 51 without parliament

I assume you're talking about the triggering of Article 50 - the decision of the Supreme Court case which we are still waiting for on whether Parliament needs to vote before it can be triggered or the Prime Minister can trigger it using Executive Powers.

So possibly, but there is talk of Teresa May rewording the Bill and forcing it through. Democracy eh!

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#223

Post by Chestofdraw » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

hkjgkjy wrote: post #124

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

27.8% chose not to have a say in it then. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market, and a majority voted for that. It's not too late for the UK - if you do have a general election, and one party promises to not follow the Brexit referendum, and they win, I guess the EU will stay. But then people will moan about government not following the voice of the people, as expressed by the referendum.

> Leaving the EU means leaving the single market, and a majority voted for that.

Stop this revisionism.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#224

Post by dx034 » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

taway_1212 wrote: post #146

blibble wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is certainly a single market for goods, services is far from complete it makes the statement "four freedoms are indivisible" somewhat hollow, because there has never been full freedom of services

Can confirm on that the single market for services is far from reality. Today, if I'm a consultant and have a consultancy company registered in EU country X, if I come to EU country Y to provide my services there, it's pretty likely that I will have to set up a separate company in Y or Y's tax people will be after me (that's currently the situation in UK for example).

I cannot confirm that. I found the tax agreements within the EU to be relatively easy in the EU & UK. Of course you deal with two authorities, so there is an additional benefit, but recognizing taxes paid in the UK with another country was not that hard.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#225

Post by dx034 » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:52 PM UTC

JohnStrange wrote: post #53

aaron-lebo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it for real or isn't that just a politician trying to sell something (which it sounds remarkably like)? One of the reasons Brexit is happening (at least it's argued) is due to bureaucracy. Should we agree with the quote or find it wrong in hindsight?

No way. Brexit was primarily caused by xenophobia in combination with lack of education about how the EU works. Most people don't even know how many unanimous votes of all member states were necessary to get to the contemporary EU in the first place. Had there been a simple test of 10 questions about how the EU works, drawn from 100 previously published questions, that needed to be answered in order to qualify as a v…

In the end it was all about immigration. Without immigration, people wouldn't have voted against the EU. Other reasons (judges in Luxembourg, EU regulation) are used as placeholders so that others won't think you're xenophobic. But most discussions with Brexit voters sooner or later end up being about immigration (esp. from Eastern Europe).

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#226

Post by Lio » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:52 PM UTC

derrickdirge wrote: post #118

tomelders wrote: post #34

All because people think 3.5% of the population (immigrants) is 20% of the population. No one - no matter what they may claim today - voted for this. At the time they were saying "we'll get access to the single market because we're special". I'm completely lost and hopeless. We've torn up everything that's good because it's difficult, and we're exchanging it for everything that's bad, and will be a thousand times mor…

Hopefully this time everyone will remember how difficult bad things are.

If we remember anything from history it should be that we don't remember. :(

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#227

Post by dx034 » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:53 PM UTC

soVeryTired wrote: post #172

hkjgkjy wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

27.8% chose not to have a say in it then. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market, and a majority voted for that. It's not too late for the UK - if you do have a general election, and one party promises to not follow the Brexit referendum, and they win, I guess the EU will stay. But then people will moan about government not following the voice of the people, as expressed by the referendum.

> Leaving the EU means leaving the single market That's actually not correct. It's possible to be in the European Free Trade Area without being a member of the EU. Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland have this arrangement.

But we need the £400mln per week we'd pay for that to fund the NHS! /s

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#228

Post by dingaling » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

kchoudhu wrote: post #161

mangecoeur wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the UK haven't quite gotten over that whole global empire thing. Every now and then they make documentaries about how they brought civilization to India or something.

I mean, the East India Company is still a going concern. It's worrying on numerous levels.

It's hard to convey just how incredibly huge and powerful was the East India Company. For example, they used to donate their used time-served warships to the Royal Navy as an act of charity!

The closest parallel today would probably be something like a merger between Halliburton and Academi, the varied enterprises of which profit hugely from foreign adventurism of their host state and which have autonomous military potential in excess of that of many countries. But even that would fall well short in terms of revenue. Perhaps throw Apple into that mix as well and you'd get close.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#229

Post by dx034 » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

xemoka wrote: post #220

Gupie wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a second referendum on what is finally agreed with the EU. The people are allowed to change their mind.

Yeah, but article 50 doesn't work like that, does it?

It just says you're out after two years, which will be very interesting if some regional parliament decides to block the deal the EU makes with the UK. And I'm sure there will be a parliament which is unhappy with the deal.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#230

Post by Chestofdraw » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:56 PM UTC

raesene6 wrote: post #204

gpderetta wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The was no reference to border control in the referendum ballot.

it was a key stated pledge of the leave campaign, so unless you were watching some other referendum campaign the suggestion that border control had nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best. In case anyone wants to argue that immigration wasn't a key part of the leave campaign... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/eu-referend... a key pledge related to immigration directly and another was closely as…

> it was a key stated pledge of the leave campaign

Which leave campaign? There was a few of them and they didn't give a consistent message. None actually have any power to implement anything so how can they make pledges anyway?

Also, that link has the picture of the bus as the first image... a 'pledge' completely based on lies that was dropped literally minutes after the vote.