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Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

bbc.com

181–190 of 324 posts

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#181
post #54

It'll be interesting to see how the UK handles this. I suspect they will fail, but they should be applauded for trying. A single market is not an unmitigated good. The single market that exists within the U.S. is the major reason why federalism has failed. When governments can't exercise control over commerce with external entities, it becomes impossible to really chart a destiny distinct from the larger union. Massa…

In the EU we have extremely different countries. What is exactly your point?

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#182

I think Britain will eventually come out of this stronger. However, it's clear in the interim period (which could be 5-10 years I think) there could be huge transitional issues. Whether that pain is worth suffering, only time will tell. Personally, I am not a huge fan of these currency, trading or political blocs. The WTO exists for trade and I would much prefer it to be the vehicle for trade, rather than groups of g…

> Personally, I am not a huge fan of these currency, trading or political blocs.

The EU seems to be pretty effective at preventing wars within Europe. That's a good enough pro to cancel out all the other cons on my list. But hey, it's been three generations since our last big war, we are probably overdue on a reminder of why fully-industrialized total war is not such a great idea.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> global destiny Does this mean what it sounds like it means?

People in the UK haven't quite gotten over that whole global empire thing. Every now and then they make documentaries about how they brought civilization to India or something.

Source, or is that just some generalised opinion based on simplistic historical foreign parody?

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#184
post #18

I think Britain will eventually come out of this stronger. However, it's clear in the interim period (which could be 5-10 years I think) there could be huge transitional issues. Whether that pain is worth suffering, only time will tell. Personally, I am not a huge fan of these currency, trading or political blocs. The WTO exists for trade and I would much prefer it to be the vehicle for trade, rather than groups of g…

It chimes with UNIX philosophy for me. Organisations like the WTO which do (approximately) one thing and one thing well are preferable to those that try and do a bit of everything. It keeps the politics to a minimum. Likewise, subject to the outcome of the negotiations, I imagine after a period of uncertainty and perhaps some turmoil it will be for the best. The timing may be unfortunate for some though.

Agree that the ideal situation is to have several WTO-like entities enforcing policies in different areas, but integrated into a global organization (call it the UN).

The EU is a good way to reach that final, ideal state.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#185
post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

To me a referendum is a clearer mandate than any general election (especially using a First Past the Post system) as it's more focused on a single topic and is (partially) free of the baggage of party alliegance. Given the percentage of the electorate who supported the current government at the last general election, it doesn't seem likely that you'd get a clearer mandate from a new one. It seems to me that Mrs May d…

clear mandate to what exactly? Hard brexit? Why would you assume that would be the preferred outcome of a majority of the population?

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#186
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for anyone not familiar with what's likely going on behind the scenes: it's about lowering the corporation tax in the UK. I don't know whether this is a new idea or not, but it would give the UK the leverage it needs in negotiations; will persuade many multinational corporations to stay and will even attract new ones. However, there will be a lot of pain for ordinary people in the interim. Not for corporations th…

Except reality, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-banks...

That article is from 23 October 2016. The tax haven talks are relatively new. I first heard about it as being part of the plan just a few days ago, from British media.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#187

Europe is not a single market at all. Simple thinks like making sure your invoice is paid from a customer who is based in another european country is practically impossible. I know because I am the CEO of a staffing company in Germany: national as well as international businesses book exhibition staff and other temporary employees for events in Germany and Austria through our platform. If one of our german customers…

Yes, but you can sell in Italy, right? I mean, the customers have to pay upfront, but they can pay and you can service.

Compare this with the need to incorporate in Italy, have people hired there, an office presence, and so on. The barrier is not 0, but it's not even remotely as it is outside EU.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#188
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how we got here. I understand that the media picked up a massive campaign to leave, because the various super-rich owners of the popular press decided Brexit was the thing to support. I understand that there were a lot of lies told and that people believed enough of those told by the Leave side that they decided to vote that way. I don't understand how a slender majority in favour of leaving ended…

The same way a slender minority forced just about the worst possible President on the American people.

As with Brexit so with Trump, the one side only won because the alternative was only barely, if at all, better.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a fair assessment of the situation. Yes, there was a referendum – but it wasn't a good one. It was advisory only – i.e. not binding – there was a narrow margin, no minimum turnout or majority requirements, and no concrete plan which was being voted on, or even any set of proposals from government. Two of the four countries in the UK voted to remain in the EU. It think it's wholly reasonable to qu…

However the majority of the people who voted (and remember here that the turnout was higher than most UK elections) voted to exit which clearly included border controls. Border controls cannot be achieved without leaving the single market, so if we're honouring the democratic process this is the only possible path.

The was no reference to border control in the referendum ballot.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the East India Company is still a going concern. It's worrying on numerous levels.

Oh dear. Go check what the 'modern East India Company' actually sells, who owns it and why he bought it.

Oh, I know who owns it. Doesn't make the brand's continued existence any less repugnant.

Think of it this way: do you think anyone could get away with selling Triangle Trade Rum?

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