Theresa May: UK must leave European single market • Hacker News Board

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#121

Post by donmatito » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:43 PM UTC

whositis wrote: post #66

donmatito wrote: post #14

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

> I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. And that's precisely why it is failing, and will continue to fail. Imagine combining Canada and the USA into a single country.

>Imagine combining Canada and the USA into a single country.

this is not very hard to imagine

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#122

Post by TillE » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:43 PM UTC

blowski wrote: post #4

I began 2016 knowing (and hoping) Remain would win the referendum, and Clinton would win the presidency. So I'm not going to make any predictions at all. Despite this speech, we still have absolutely no idea what conversations are being had in private, or how anything is going to work out.

The EU is going to slaughter the UK. That's basically their public position, and there's little reason to suspect they hold different private positions. It's the only thing that makes political sense.

An agreement needs to be reached about EU citizens already living in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU. That's maybe the only critical issue where they have common ground. In every other respect, the UK is going to take decades to recover from radical economic upheaval. It's a ludicrous self-imposed crisis.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#123

Post by notahacker » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:44 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

A general election in the near future isn't going to pose any practical obstacle to May, since the opposition parties (except in Scotland) are in total disarray and the public has very little information to judge whether May's vague aspirations are actually realistic and desirable. And all the available evidence suggests they actually trust her more than the PM whose government they reelected.

A post-negotiation referendum might be more of a mandate, but pitching the idea that "the referendum obliges the government to attempt to negotiate the best Leave settlement it can; it doesn't guarantee the outcome of those negotations will actually be more popular than the EU so that deal shoud also be put to referendum" required considerably more unity and political skill on the part of the remains of the Remain campaign to make the idea stick.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#124

Post by hkjgkjy » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:44 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

27.8% chose not to have a say in it then. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market, and a majority voted for that.

It's not too late for the UK - if you do have a general election, and one party promises to not follow the Brexit referendum, and they win, I guess the EU will stay. But then people will moan about government not following the voice of the people, as expressed by the referendum.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#125

Post by derrickdirge » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:44 PM UTC

mathw wrote: post #109

tomelders wrote: post #34

All because people think 3.5% of the population (immigrants) is 20% of the population. No one - no matter what they may claim today - voted for this. At the time they were saying "we'll get access to the single market because we're special". I'm completely lost and hopeless. We've torn up everything that's good because it's difficult, and we're exchanging it for everything that's bad, and will be a thousand times mor…

I don't understand how we got here. I understand that the media picked up a massive campaign to leave, because the various super-rich owners of the popular press decided Brexit was the thing to support. I understand that there were a lot of lies told and that people believed enough of those told by the Leave side that they decided to vote that way. I don't understand how a slender majority in favour of leaving ended…

The same way a slender minority forced just about the worst possible President on the American people.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#126

Post by SixSigma » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:44 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #63

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

I'm confused why my comment has been downvoted. Theresa May was not voted into government. Only 52% of (72.2%) of the population voted for Brexit. Quite a disappointing response.

> Theresa May was not voted into government.

She was voted into government by her party, just like the leaders of every UK government.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#127

Post by blibble » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:44 PM UTC

BjoernKW wrote: post #111

charlesdm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, you can't harmonise VAT without harmonising the tax bases. And if you don't harmonise the tax bases, companies will try to set up mechanisms to avoid tax.

The problem is not about the different VAT rates in different countries. The problem is the process for claiming VAT paid in another EU country. That process is so ridiculously complex that up to a certain amount even accountants have largely given up on it because it's not worth the bother.

indeed, I simply stopped selling services to the rest of the EU as it was not worth the effort in dealing with the new EU VAT regime, even though my small operation is below the threshold for VAT registration in my home country

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#128

Post by Noseshine » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:45 PM UTC

sandbags wrote: post #114

Noseshine wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there WAS a vote. A democratic vote. I'm looking at it from the outside and don't care either way - except that the way some very vocal ones of the so-called "remainers" dislike democracy and voting as soon as they don't get what they want disgusts me. Remember your attitude when some day - inevitably - it will be the other way around, you won a vote and the other side comes up with the same arguments.

Yes there was a vote. But it was a vote on a very ambiguous set of terms that was also an advisory vote, not a binding vote. This vote has been taken by an unelected Prime Minister serving out a term won on a mandate to protect UK interests in Europe. The current PM's actions are quite illegitimate.

You can twist and turn it any way you like, there WAS a vote, it was democratic, and you just keep complaining and whining about democracy when you don't like the outcome.

  The current PM's actions are quite illegitimate.

If that is so go to the courts. Otherwise whatever you say is just an empty bag of hot air.

Of course, you won't do that - because you know very well the current UK government is perfectly legitimate.

And "brexit" was voted for by the people. People like you only start complaining when they dislike the result - or please show me your similar complains when the result was to your liking, because there always are people who abstain. Only votes from people who vote count, what a huge surprise.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#129

Post by SixSigma » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:45 PM UTC

sandbags wrote: post #114

Noseshine wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there WAS a vote. A democratic vote. I'm looking at it from the outside and don't care either way - except that the way some very vocal ones of the so-called "remainers" dislike democracy and voting as soon as they don't get what they want disgusts me. Remember your attitude when some day - inevitably - it will be the other way around, you won a vote and the other side comes up with the same arguments.

Yes there was a vote. But it was a vote on a very ambiguous set of terms that was also an advisory vote, not a binding vote. This vote has been taken by an unelected Prime Minister serving out a term won on a mandate to protect UK interests in Europe. The current PM's actions are quite illegitimate.

Which election had "I want David Cameron as PM" on the ballot?

I only remember having the option to vote in parliamentary elections for my local MP.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#130

Post by robert_foss » Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:45 PM UTC

derrickdirge wrote: post #56

harryf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I want my money back!" Margret Thatcher at the European Union summit in Dublin in 1980 "That such an unnecessary and irrational project as building a European superstate was ever embarked upon will seem in future years to be perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era. And that Britain, with her traditional strengths and global destiny, should ever have been part of it will appear a political error of historic magn…

> global destiny Does this mean what it sounds like it means?

Well, it's a marketing prop that tries to refocus the attention on a conceivably positive aspect.