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The World’s Most Innovative Economies

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Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#51

Post by Maakuth »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #18
kartan wrote: post #11

> Fresh ideas tend to pay off big in Sweden, even as the current government is less business-friendly and has imposed labor taxes that could crimp business investment Maybe it is that high taxes and citizen friendly social system the responsible for the success of the country. I moved to Sweden to work in the tech sector because I like how socially advanced is the country. Taxes are used to invest in society, and tha…

I think it's very much a cultural thing. Much of the social system in the US is informal. For example in the American South, things like the Salvation Army are huge and lots of small churches have homeless programs, food drives, and facilities that push for employment skills. Of course that ties a lot of dogma into social help, but it's there. Sweden, having a much smaller government with fewer conflicting factions i…

These informal systems are nice and all, but one problem in charity in general is the judgment involved. A welfare state has the ability to provide for the unpleasant people as well, whereas charity often requires you to match the expectations as a person in need.

Think about people with substance abuse or other psychological problems - these kind of people might have hard time getting help from a charity. It doesn't feel charitable to help drunken, angry or otherwise distasteful people, yet they deserve help.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#52

Post by Unklejoe »

kartan wrote: post #11

> Fresh ideas tend to pay off big in Sweden, even as the current government is less business-friendly and has imposed labor taxes that could crimp business investment Maybe it is that high taxes and citizen friendly social system the responsible for the success of the country. I moved to Sweden to work in the tech sector because I like how socially advanced is the country. Taxes are used to invest in society, and tha…

Assuming that they're implicitly comparing Sweden to the US, I would like clarification on how Sweden is less business-friendly. From my quick search, it seems like their corporate tax is around 17% lower than that of the US. Perhaps they have other taxes that make up for the difference?

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#53

Post by brotherjerky »

kartan wrote: post #11

> Fresh ideas tend to pay off big in Sweden, even as the current government is less business-friendly and has imposed labor taxes that could crimp business investment Maybe it is that high taxes and citizen friendly social system the responsible for the success of the country. I moved to Sweden to work in the tech sector because I like how socially advanced is the country. Taxes are used to invest in society, and tha…

I think Americans tend to over-estimate the tax rate in Europe.

California's top marginal rate (including state and payroll taxes) comes out to about 47%. It looks like Sweden tops out at 56%. But for that extra 9%, you get lots of services (health care, education, etc). I'd guess most Americans would take the tax hike to not worry about insurance, school loans, etc.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#54

Post by fsloth »

OskarS wrote: post #28
kzrdude wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sweden is perhaps one of the most individualistic country in the world: we value the individual over the family or community, and we believe that everyone should have the same opportunities regardless of the circumstances of their birth. This is the reason we have the social safety net we have: it is a substitute for family and community and other more traditional support systems. I think this has its costs; humans…

Oh, yes, I totally agree! There's a very steep cost to this model of "Swedish-style individualism", and it's exactly the one you describe. Swedes have much weaker bonds to their extended family, their community, their religious institutions (etc.) and it's clearly not a good thing. Humans are social animals. I'm not necessarily arguing that Sweden is a model society and all other countries should adopt our ways. What…

"Swedes have much weaker bonds ... to their religious institutions"

Most nordic people would call this progress.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#55

Post by refurb »

brotherjerky wrote: post #53
kartan wrote: post #11

> Fresh ideas tend to pay off big in Sweden, even as the current government is less business-friendly and has imposed labor taxes that could crimp business investment Maybe it is that high taxes and citizen friendly social system the responsible for the success of the country. I moved to Sweden to work in the tech sector because I like how socially advanced is the country. Taxes are used to invest in society, and tha…

I think Americans tend to over-estimate the tax rate in Europe. California's top marginal rate (including state and payroll taxes) comes out to about 47%. It looks like Sweden tops out at 56%. But for that extra 9%, you get lots of services (health care, education, etc). I'd guess most Americans would take the tax hike to not worry about insurance, school loans, etc.

Marginal tax rates mean nothing unless you know what the actual income brackets are.

The US's hughest tax brackets kick in at almost $400K. If Sweden's kicks in at $100K, the tax burden is MuCH higher.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#56

Post by bbctol »

joelthelion wrote: post #7

> South Korea remained the big winner, topping the international charts in R&D intensity, value-added manufacturing and patent activity and with top-five rankings in high-tech density, higher education and researcher concentration None of these are really all that relevant to true innovation. As a European, it's clear to me that no country comes even close to the US in terms of innovation. Almost all really new techn…

A lot more big picture/consumer-facing innovation comes out of the US, because that's bolstered by cultural influence, but South Korea's manufacturing innovation is insane. iPhones may be designed in America, but the components they need to function come from a series of brilliant Korean inventions.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#57

Post by geon »

vidarh wrote: post #39
geon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sweden, having a much smaller government with fewer conflicting factions Lol. In contrast to the US, Sweden has a somewhat functioning democracy with more than 2 mainstream parties.

But I think Sweden, and the rest of Scandinavia (I'm Norwegian) has a less adversarial political system. We're used to coalitions, so most political parties are careful not to burn bridges totally. We also often have broad negotiated compromises where the US is more likely to have bitterly fought battles leading to a small majority where the losers ends up trying hard to reverse the decision afterwards (witness the A…

Insightful. I also think the 2-party system in the us tends to polarize all discussion. Everything has to fit on the same left/right scale, and there is no middle ground.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#58

Post by emj »

brotherjerky wrote: post #53
kartan wrote: post #11

> Fresh ideas tend to pay off big in Sweden, even as the current government is less business-friendly and has imposed labor taxes that could crimp business investment Maybe it is that high taxes and citizen friendly social system the responsible for the success of the country. I moved to Sweden to work in the tech sector because I like how socially advanced is the country. Taxes are used to invest in society, and tha…

I think Americans tend to over-estimate the tax rate in Europe. California's top marginal rate (including state and payroll taxes) comes out to about 47%. It looks like Sweden tops out at 56%. But for that extra 9%, you get lots of services (health care, education, etc). I'd guess most Americans would take the tax hike to not worry about insurance, school loans, etc.

I'm guessing you hit the top tax faster in Sweden, the people I know with an degree will get above 50% fast, just anecdotal evidence though.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#59

Post by kzrdude »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #29
kzrdude wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sweden is perhaps one of the most individualistic country in the world: we value the individual over the family or community, and we believe that everyone should have the same opportunities regardless of the circumstances of their birth. This is the reason we have the social safety net we have: it is a substitute for family and community and other more traditional support systems. I think this has its costs; humans…

"Example: Your grandmother will meet 100 different caregivers for home care in a year" French here. My grand pa is old and has caregivers (paid by his public health care + the local county) coming to his home every day, they're always the same 4-5 people. It's not hard giving people a steady job instead of using disposable contractors.

Well, Sweden definitely is not hitting that mark.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#60

Post by brotherjerky »

refurb wrote: post #55
brotherjerky wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Americans tend to over-estimate the tax rate in Europe. California's top marginal rate (including state and payroll taxes) comes out to about 47%. It looks like Sweden tops out at 56%. But for that extra 9%, you get lots of services (health care, education, etc). I'd guess most Americans would take the tax hike to not worry about insurance, school loans, etc.

Marginal tax rates mean nothing unless you know what the actual income brackets are. The US's hughest tax brackets kick in at almost $400K. If Sweden's kicks in at $100K, the tax burden is MuCH higher.

Looks like top tax bracket in Sweden is $90k -- at $90k, CA marginal is 42%. So a delta of 14% -- still probably worth it, especially at lower incomes where student loans and health care a higher percentage of earnings.
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