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Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

bbc.com

41–50 of 324 posts

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#41
I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern.

We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her.

I don't want this government to make such fundamental changes without the mandate of the people.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#42
post #27

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

> This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. Only we never done that. We just allowed for easy border access, united a few laws, and had central bureaucrats and heavier countries step on the throats of lesser ones.

While I agree with what you said, I believe the UK never acted as a heavier country during all these years. I understand why if the reason is purely political and based on winning elections but winning in the short terms led us to where we are now. I'm sure Cameron got himself a nice surprise.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#43
post #27

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

> This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. Only we never done that. We just allowed for easy border access, united a few laws, and had central bureaucrats and heavier countries step on the throats of lesser ones.

Except that's absolutely incorrect and repeating these things won't make it any more true.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#44

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

A clean cut is certainly in both sides best interest, and the UK is clear they want that, but EU is not so clear about it, because they depend on implied threats to keep some of the other members from leaving too. Free trade is fantastic, but a unified monatory policy is a disaster - it cannot work- not even on paper.

Don't confuse the EU and the Euro.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#45
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it for real or isn't that just a politician trying to sell something (which it sounds remarkably like)? One of the reasons Brexit is happening (at least it's argued) is due to bureaucracy. Should we agree with the quote or find it wrong in hindsight?

Just to be clear, are you doubting the existence of a single market for EU members? Because if you are, reality is very persuasive.

there is certainly a single market for goods, services is far from complete

it makes the statement "four freedoms are indivisible" somewhat hollow, because there has never been full freedom of services

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#46
post #23

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

> It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real. Actually it was a bureaucratic plan all along, and badly managed. And you still can have great access to the same 320 million market even outside of it (like e.g. China or Japan have) -- with the extra benefit that you don't have a German-controlled ECB to impose you rules and monetary policy.

What double standards! So, trade tariffs and custom agreements: bureaucracy; restrictions on free movement [1] - that's just the will of the people!

Populism is going to cost the UK dearly. And not just in terms of money. The UK is heading headlong into a kind of society taken straight out of the pages of "V for Vendetta".

________________

[1] "Controls on immigration"

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#47
post #23

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

> It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real. Actually it was a bureaucratic plan all along, and badly managed. And you still can have great access to the same 320 million market even outside of it (like e.g. China or Japan have) -- with the extra benefit that you don't have a German-controlled ECB to impose you rules and monetary policy.

"you still can have great access" Well, that is quite a statement considering what has been the tenor of EU officials thus far. And keep in mind that the only chance for Europe to keep the freedom of movement will probably be to make it extraordinarily difficult for Great Britain to get access to the free market. It does not really stand up for debate that Britain's economy will suffer quite a bit, and less rules by the EACH will not make up for that.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#48
post #2

...and now off to re-build the British Empire...?

Many here in the UK might actually be hoping for just that!! Fingers crossed it doesn't turn into a mess!

I think you are onto something personally. Many in the UK had an inflated view of the importance / strength of the country harking back to the empire (admittedly final days pre WWII). Which was in fact more todo with to being close to the US who propped the country up and kept it at the top table, because we would always agree as opposed to the actual merit of the country.

That combined with an island mentality and a fear mongering, sensationalist press.

Case in point, my mother complaining of immigration, although she lives in an out of the way town where they had never seen a brown person (apart from at the hospital in the next town) until probably the late 90s.

Now she insists there are too many eastern Europeans, however she swears blind she would never get an Englishman builder / plumber because the Polish ones (catchall, means any Eastern euro) are cheaper, more reliable and just better.

But she wants to make Britain "great" again, "like it used to be". Pressing her when, she cannot answer. Asked if we should invade a "brown" country and get rich of plundering their resources and ruling via the military like we used to do, "no no no we shouldn't do that". "err mother you do realise why we used to be great and rich don't you"

and she voted remain!

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#49

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

Wow, this is coming from the woman herself, the icon of modern conservatism in the 20th century.

Capitalism proves to be not self-sustainable and now it's self-cannibalizing which is a good thing as we move gradually to the next stage in history according to Karl Marx to socialism and away from capitalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_history#Stage...

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#50

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

Was it for real or isn't that just a politician trying to sell something (which it sounds remarkably like)? One of the reasons Brexit is happening (at least it's argued) is due to bureaucracy. Should we agree with the quote or find it wrong in hindsight?

no, its immigration, and the lack of jobs for "locals"

much has been made of "bureaucracy" but in fact, most of that is hidden from the UK.

The basic fact is that large parts of the UK have been left to rot, suffering terribly from the lack of decent jobs to replace the decline of manufacturing. This has been blamed on immigration, correctly or not. That is why large swathes of the country voted to leave.

Now we won't have that excuse any more.

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