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Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

bbc.com

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Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#31

Post by aaron-lebo »

mfukar wrote: post #26
aaron-lebo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it for real or isn't that just a politician trying to sell something (which it sounds remarkably like)? One of the reasons Brexit is happening (at least it's argued) is due to bureaucracy. Should we agree with the quote or find it wrong in hindsight?

Just to be clear, are you doubting the existence of a single market for EU members? Because if you are, reality is very persuasive.

You can agree with the existence of a single market but find most of that quote flowery political rhetoric.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#32

Post by iaskwhy »

coldtea wrote: post #23
emptyfile wrote: post #5

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

> It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real. Actually it was a bureaucratic plan all along, and badly managed. And you still can have great access to the same 320 million market even outside of it (like e.g. China or Japan have) -- with the extra benefit that you don't have a German-controlled ECB to impose you rules and monetary policy.

Any examples of monetary policies imposed by the ECB on the BoE? Given the different currency, I'm curious about it.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#33

Post by cs02rm0 »

bru wrote: post #21
akjainaj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is funny because if the EU is to survive, immigration controls will have to be put in place. Many countries are already demanding to control their borders. So when that happens, the UK will feel stupid for leaving, I suppose. They could've just waited.

There are currently such controls for the EU, actually, and done on the French side of the channel. Those may go as well.

Only at Calais are they on the French side. They're on the UK side elsewhere.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#34

Post by tomelders »

All because people think 3.5% of the population (immigrants) is 20% of the population. No one - no matter what they may claim today - voted for this. At the time they were saying "we'll get access to the single market because we're special".

I'm completely lost and hopeless. We've torn up everything that's good because it's difficult, and we're exchanging it for everything that's bad, and will be a thousand times more difficult.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#35

Post by osullivj »

cs02rm0 wrote: post #3

I think, regardless of where she intends to end up, she always had to start from the perspective of the UK being completely out of the EU. Showing that the UK is prepared to stand on its own two feet. If not prepared to do so, negotiations would be very one sided. It'll certainly be interesting to see how the negotiations play out.

Agreed. Look at what happened with the recent Canadian EU deal, which was nearly derailed by Wallonia, the French speaking half of Belgium [1]. A UK EU trade deal will require unanimity from the EU 27. Given the current political climate, that just won't happen. So "hard Brexit" is inevitable. Theresa May is just making a virtue of a necessity. She does have one very powerful negotiating lever: London is Europe's financial capital. When the debt management office of any Eurozone state issues new govt bonds to the primary market the bidders are primary dealer trading desks in London. The ultimate measure of Eurozone govt financial stability is whether an individual govt can attract bids for 100% of a new issue, and at what price. Since 2010 there have been occasions Italy and Greece have failed to get bids for new debt. When that happens Germany and the ECB have to step in.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/27/belgium-reache...

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#36

Post by gotchange »

coldtea wrote: post #23
emptyfile wrote: post #5

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

> It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real. Actually it was a bureaucratic plan all along, and badly managed. And you still can have great access to the same 320 million market even outside of it (like e.g. China or Japan have) -- with the extra benefit that you don't have a German-controlled ECB to impose you rules and monetary policy.

> you don't have a German-controlled ECB to impose you rules and monetary policy.

The UK had its own currency and central bank from the get go. What are you're referring to exactly here?

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#37

Post by andriesm »

donmatito wrote: post #14

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

A clean cut is certainly in both sides best interest, and the UK is clear they want that, but EU is not so clear about it, because they depend on implied threats to keep some of the other members from leaving too.

Free trade is fantastic, but a unified monatory policy is a disaster - it cannot work- not even on paper.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#38

Post by harryf »

emptyfile wrote: post #5

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

"I want my money back!"

Margret Thatcher at the European Union summit in Dublin in 1980

"That such an unnecessary and irrational project as building a European superstate was ever embarked upon will seem in future years to be perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era. And that Britain, with her traditional strengths and global destiny, should ever have been part of it will appear a political error of historic magnitude."

Margret Thatcher from her book Statecraft published in 2003

... just pointing out that Margaret Thatchers views on Europe were nuanced at best. Probably best explained by this segment from Yes Minister https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#39

Post by tmalsburg2 »

coldtea wrote: post #23
emptyfile wrote: post #5

"It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer. Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. Bigger than Japan. Bigger than…

> It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real. Actually it was a bureaucratic plan all along, and badly managed. And you still can have great access to the same 320 million market even outside of it (like e.g. China or Japan have) -- with the extra benefit that you don't have a German-controlled ECB to impose you rules and monetary policy.

That's very optimistic thinking. First, Japan and China are both more heavyweight economically than the UK, and second, the EU will want to set a precedent: If you leave, it's gonna be painful. They really don't have another choice.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#40

Post by mojuba »

headmelted wrote: post #9

For anyone not familiar with British political etiquette, the phrase: "the UK cannot remain within the European single market, as staying in it would mean not leaving the EU at all" can be interpreted as: "I told them they better give us a special exception for single market access and no immigration and they laughed at me".

And for anyone not familiar with what's likely going on behind the scenes: it's about lowering the corporation tax in the UK. I don't know whether this is a new idea or not, but it would give the UK the leverage it needs in negotiations; will persuade many multinational corporations to stay and will even attract new ones.

However, there will be a lot of pain for ordinary people in the interim. Not for corporations though. it seems.

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