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Charisma / Power

paulgraham.com

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Re: Charisma / Power

#21

Post by adventured »

krapp wrote: post #14
programminggeek wrote: post #13

Donald Trump is both a powerful builder and very charismatic. He builds buildings and has loads of charisma. The dichotomy between Trump and Hillary is false in this case on dimensions other than simply having charisma. Trump had more charisma than Hillary as well as the 16 or whatever ridiculous number of GOP candidates there were at one point. Bernie Sanders was the only candidate in this cycle with a similar level…

Trump is many things, and charismatic may be one of them, although personally I don't see it, but "a powerful builder" is not one of them. Trump doesn't build buildings - he licenses his name to buildings other people build. He doesn't even own most of the properties that bear his name. The only thing he can feasibly claim to have built is his own celebrity, and prior to his recent status, his celebrity might generou…

Most of the mega developers do not own all of what they build or buy into. The richest real estate billionaires of the last 50 years, most of them develop large projects in investment groups. You're presenting a hollow argument against Trump, judging by the investment style of his billionaire real estate peers.

Re: Charisma / Power

#22

Post by krapp »

adventured wrote: post #21
krapp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is many things, and charismatic may be one of them, although personally I don't see it, but "a powerful builder" is not one of them. Trump doesn't build buildings - he licenses his name to buildings other people build. He doesn't even own most of the properties that bear his name. The only thing he can feasibly claim to have built is his own celebrity, and prior to his recent status, his celebrity might generou…

Most of the mega developers do not own all of what they build or buy into. The richest real estate billionaires of the last 50 years, most of them develop large projects in investment groups. You're presenting a hollow argument against Trump, judging by the investment style of his billionaire real estate peers.

>The richest real estate billionaires of the last 50 years, most of them develop large projects in investment groups.

They don't deserve to be considered "builders" either. Certainly not "builders of buildings."

Re: Charisma / Power

#23

Post by adventured »

jolux wrote: post #20
auternach wrote: post #4

So lets analyze this for a moment. We have defined a "Builder Type" CEO who is not charismatic yet is defined by being able to build and ship things. Like Mark Zuckerberg minus his team of PR people. Then we have a "Charismatic Type" CEO who people like but who can't get anything done. By this definition, Obama would be the useless yet charismatic CEO. Hillary, who has never built anything (that I can identify), woul…

>Hillary, who has never built anything (that I can identify), would be a "Builder" type (apparently?). Well what do you define as building? She was a successful legislator and built up a charity and public speaking business for herself out of almost nothing.

I don't believe the Clinton Foundation or public speaking business (which Bill also pursued) was built up out of nothing. What greater head-start could you get to begin building a public speaking business or foundation than to be either the former President or married to the world famous former President of the only superpower? The connections, the access to money and favors, the uber rich people (eg Wall Street) that want to buy your ear, it's beyond immense.

Re: Charisma / Power

#24

Post by peteretep »

adventured wrote: post #19
peteretep wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reasonably sure there were well cited stories in the NYT showing his effective inheritance was huge, and that he'd massively underperformed compared to other NY property developers. Are those fake news because they're from NYT? edit: also I'm not entirely sure Marco Rubio counts as "liberal media", but I'm not up to date with the latest lingo. Politifact seems to think $1m is fairly unlikely though: http://www.…

No, there was never any evidence provided to support the claim. Trump publicly stated over, and over, and over again that it wasn't correct. The liberal media never gave evidence post any of those statements by Trump about the million dollar loan, to refute him. Then they entirely dropped the attack as a vector, obviously because they couldn't support it. edit: I never said Marco Rubio was part of the liberal media.…

According to this article, Trump said in a deposition that he borrowed $9m against future inheritance, making claims it was only worth $1m suspect. Seems hard to get decent figures, other than those that show he consistently lies about the situation:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/fact-checker/wp/...

Re: Charisma / Power

#25

Post by jolux »

adventured wrote: post #23
jolux wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hillary, who has never built anything (that I can identify), would be a "Builder" type (apparently?). Well what do you define as building? She was a successful legislator and built up a charity and public speaking business for herself out of almost nothing.

I don't believe the Clinton Foundation or public speaking business (which Bill also pursued) was built up out of nothing. What greater head-start could you get to begin building a public speaking business or foundation than to be either the former President or married to the world famous former President of the only superpower? The connections, the access to money and favors, the uber rich people (eg Wall Street) tha…

Uh, Trump was given tons of money by his dad and inherited tons more, and there's no conclusive evidence that he's had net gains on that money.

Re: Charisma / Power

#26

Post by owebmaster »

krapp wrote: post #14
programminggeek wrote: post #13

Donald Trump is both a powerful builder and very charismatic. He builds buildings and has loads of charisma. The dichotomy between Trump and Hillary is false in this case on dimensions other than simply having charisma. Trump had more charisma than Hillary as well as the 16 or whatever ridiculous number of GOP candidates there were at one point. Bernie Sanders was the only candidate in this cycle with a similar level…

Trump is many things, and charismatic may be one of them, although personally I don't see it, but "a powerful builder" is not one of them. Trump doesn't build buildings - he licenses his name to buildings other people build. He doesn't even own most of the properties that bear his name. The only thing he can feasibly claim to have built is his own celebrity, and prior to his recent status, his celebrity might generou…

So by this thinking, no "business" co founder is a builder, because they don't build software.

Re: Charisma / Power

#27

Post by krapp »

owebmaster wrote: post #26
krapp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is many things, and charismatic may be one of them, although personally I don't see it, but "a powerful builder" is not one of them. Trump doesn't build buildings - he licenses his name to buildings other people build. He doesn't even own most of the properties that bear his name. The only thing he can feasibly claim to have built is his own celebrity, and prior to his recent status, his celebrity might generou…

So by this thinking, no "business" co founder is a builder, because they don't build software.

What one builds is important, when describing the core competencies of a person.

Describing Trump as someone who builds his buildings gives him credit for a depth of insight and an active hand in the process of architecture, and the gp comment that appears to liken him to Steve Jobs further implies that Trump has an equivalent level of talent and genius in his field. I see no evidence that he is to real estate what Steve Jobs was to Apple computers.

Donald Trump is a builder of fortunes, of his own celebrity and business relationships. As such, I would judge him on the quality of the network he surrounds himself with, because his core competency appears to be choosing people to build things for him.

And I wouldn't necessarily claim that any business co-founder is a builder. Otherwise, I might as well say I build rockets if I invest enough money into SpaceX.

Re: Charisma / Power

#28

Post by bassman9000 »

Hillary Clinton as a Builder? Building for whom? Have we already forgotten her disastrous State Dep. run? Has she built or destroyed in the Middle East?

Whitewashing comes early.

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