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Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

blog.caranddriver.com

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Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#51

Post by SamReidHughes »

ars wrote: post #24
rconti wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the vastly lower energy consumption of LEDs perhaps a virtue that makes them preferable to incandescents, even though they are far more complicated to manufacture?

They can't manufacture either of them, so complexity of manufacture doesn't enter into it. So I assume they like LED's for the same reason you do, less battery. If they did make incandescents (I suppose if they tried they could), then the comparison would be harder for them, and I would expect some communities to go one way, some the other.

Also, in homes, the main alternatives involve fire.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#52

Post by forkandwait »

Whenever a discussion of Amish comes up, I have to link to my favorite hard core Anabaptist sect, the Hutterites. Unlike th Amish, the Hutterites love technology. They choose what technology to use as part of a very strict church system, like the Amish, but are very much into diesel engines and the internet and the like (note the link below). See [1] and [2] below.

They also live communally in farming colonies of about 80 people (half Dunbar's number) in very remote parts of Western Canada and the Northwestern US. Historically, the Hutterites have pissed off the local non-Hutterite farmers because the colonies are successful and can buy up local land from the non-communal/ religious/ pacifist local farmers; they were run out of South Dakota for their success combined with their pacifism in the early 20th Century.

They are pacifist, just like all Anabaptists (Mennonite, Amish, etc). Unlike English variants of Anabaptism (Quakers, etc), Hutterites and other German derived sects drink quite a bit of alcohol, I think. I think they have a great a-capella singing ritual tradition. I bet their food is great, too. I heard they like hockey.

The ~1900 Hutterites are also famous among population theorist/ demographers because their historical data provided the baseline of the highest possible, yet realistic, human fertility society. They married early (probably with quasi-arranged marriages), had lots of babies (much cheaper to raise in a communal setting), were healthy with relatively low mortality, and kept great records (German heritage...).

They are very much a going concern today, continuing to found new colonies even a few years ago, one in Oregon 14 years ago [3] below. I have always wanted to visit a colony, but I live in the urban Puget Sound and the closest colony is about 3.5 hour drive away. I have read that they are quite welcoming, as long as you are quite respectful in return (a fair trade, to my mind).

[1] http://www.hutterites.org/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite

[3] http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200...

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#53

Post by stcredzero »

moron4hire wrote: post #50
stcredzero wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The typical substitute for wood is plastic, but that comes from petroleum, and there's none of that on Mars either. This was covered in Zubrin's The Case for Mars. With the input of some hydrogen and some energy, you can source feedstock for plastics from Mars' atmosphere. For example, ethylene: http://pioneerastro.com/Team/RZubrin/Mars_In-Situ_Resource_U...

Except Mars' atmosphere is more akin to a vacuum than most industrial vacuum processes.

That's because most industrial vacuum processes happen in the 15 psi context of conditions on Earth. We already know that the Sabatier process will work in Mars like conditions. The chemistry has been around for a century, and demonstration hardware specifically for Mars conditions was built over a decade ago.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#54

Post by cnnsucks »

My state has cut rumble strips down the middle of many roads. The Amish are up early and travelling around on Sundays in buggies on the shoulders. It use to be easy to give them room; no traffic that early so you swing out across the line and keep away from the horse. Now if you do that you hit the rumble strip and the horse will panic; rear up and try to see what terrible thing is coming up from behind.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#56

Post by marincounty »

chiaro wrote: post #32
redsummer wrote: post #28

A lot of people think the Amish are against technology. In fact, they carefully consider the technology's effect on themselves and their community. Will it really help, or is it just a new thing which will cause unintended consequences? For instance, some Amish groups accepted cars, and their community disappeared - when anyone can drive anywhere the community collapsed. Now there are no Amish who allow cars. The sam…

Cars give freedom to those who don't have it. It's easy to have a rosy pastoral view of the Amish, but the reality is grim for many young women subjugated to that culture. The ability for such people to see that the outside world can be far less harsh than the one they are used to will necessarily (and in my opinion should ) lead to the collapse of those communities.

How do you know?

To be perfectly honest, the only group of people I am envious of are the Amish.

I sadly see morality/ethics melting away in our modern society.

Assuming women are victims is getting old too.

I think the Amish do so many things better than most of us. I wish more groups held their values.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#57

Post by gvb »

dripton wrote: post #8

>There was actually an alternator system attempted in the last five years,” he says. “It worked about 60 percent, but it never took off. Generator hubs for bicycles are mature technology at this point. Including capacitors in the taillights so they stay on when the bike is stopped. Buggies could easily adopt them, but I guess it's not worth the bother if batteries mostly work.

Generators or alternators driven off the wheels are not free - the horse is now powering your lights as well as your wagon. The relatively high efficiency of LED lights helps a lot, but your horse still with thank you for using batteries.

The article discusses the higher efficiency of steel tires compared to rubber tires and the emphasis on light weight. Tens of Watts of generator load on the horse is probably more than the difference in steel vs. rubber tires.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#58

Post by ralfd »

dripton wrote: post #8

>There was actually an alternator system attempted in the last five years,” he says. “It worked about 60 percent, but it never took off. Generator hubs for bicycles are mature technology at this point. Including capacitors in the taillights so they stay on when the bike is stopped. Buggies could easily adopt them, but I guess it's not worth the bother if batteries mostly work.

How do Amish recharge the batteries though?

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#59

Post by NortySpock »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #34
dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

There's no wood on Mars. A great deal of our infrastructure (not just Amish infrastructure) is wood-based, and the first Martians will have to find a substitute for it. The typical substitute for wood is plastic, but that comes from petroleum, and there's none of that on Mars either. I suppose one of the first things we'll have to build on Mars is greenhouses -- not just for food, but for plant-based plastic to build…

Bamboo is a commonly proposed Mars substitute. Grows like a weed.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#60

Post by vogt »

forkandwait wrote: post #52

Whenever a discussion of Amish comes up, I have to link to my favorite hard core Anabaptist sect, the Hutterites. Unlike th Amish, the Hutterites love technology. They choose what technology to use as part of a very strict church system, like the Amish, but are very much into diesel engines and the internet and the like (note the link below). See [1] and [2] below. They also live communally in farming colonies of abo…

Very interesting. I live in Pullman, WA. They have a colony in Spokane. I'm curious now.
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