I'm surprised that this is surprising.
Physics as a career doesn't pay terribly well, but as a degree offers a very wide breadth in coursework and skills. Grad students in particular usually have experience in HPC, for instance.
Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
121–130 of 178 posts
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#122Wired: "Move Over, Coders—Physicists Will Soon Rule Silicon Valley"
And soon we will rule the world, muhahaha...!
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.
Do you have a source for the rough number 10? I'd have guessed the average is more, even if the median is 10ish.
It is just a rough guess based on my experience as a grad student. The average professor at my university had 1-2 grad students at a time, and with 6 years to finish a PhD and about 35 years where a professor takes on grad students it works out to roughly 10. I wouldn't be surprised if the number was actually as high as 20 though, 10 is probably a low estimate. Another way to look at is that roughly half of people go on to do a 1st postdoc, half of those go on to do a 2nd and 3rd or 4th postdoc, half of those get a tenure track position and around 3/4 of people with a tenure track position actually get tenure. The problem with a career in physics these days is that a postdoc position is a terrible deal. As a graduate student you at least have job security and can stay in the same place for a good amount of time, not so as a postdoc.
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#124> In other words, all the physicists pushing into the realm of the Silicon Valley engineer is a sign of a much bigger change to come. So this article comes all the way to this. Is there data that hiring of physicists speeded up in the recent years? And why roles they are taken? Presumably not all in machine learning, if I have to guess. Until then, this is another effort to turn an otherwise good interview into an un…
Most physicists who recently graduated who I know (who don't do a postdoc) have transitioned or are looking to transition into data science. I am in the looking to transition group, so my sample may be biased though.
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#125While being a student a physics professor told me:
"Study physics now. Because later when you have a job, you might get paid to learn using some software tool or a new programming language. But no company will ever send you into a quantum mechanics lecture. "
He was right.
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't some universities give MS diplomas out to people who make it so far in the program, but drop out before getting their PhD as a kind of "well, here's something for your work"?
Yeah those are usually referred to as "terminal masters", meaning that you terminated your education with as MS.
"terminal masters" more usually refers to a field where a Masters degree is the highest attainable degree, like a Masters of Fine Art (there is no Doctorate of Fine Art).
Although searching Google - I can find references to the usage you're giving.
But, I fully agree that a Masters in a hard science, especially from a top research school, is almost always a consolation prize for those who drop out. My program would not accept students into the program for a Masters, it was PhD only, unless you dropped out.
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#127This is a pretty common career path I think once people realize that finding a well paying physics gig is much much tougher than just becoming a developer. Every physicist has at least some programming experience and are generally adept at problem solving. Coding was always way more fun than doing 4th year/grad school level physics for me too. Also, it is especially tough to get a job if you're a mediocre physicist (…
On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.
> even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.
Why? I know an academic who has done exactly that. Nearing retirement now.
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was a Physics undergrad+ Physics / Materials Science PhD and I ended up just quitting 4 years into my PhD. You can do it too. You don't owe your advisor anything and you've definitely put in your indentured servitude. I ended up getting a job as a data analyst / scientist and never looked back. You can work on interesting problems, use the same experimental design knowledge and methods, and get paid $100k more than…
Four years? Is it common for a Physics PhD to take that long? I thought most fields are closer to two years.
My Ph.D. took 9 years from start of M.S. program til defense.
I was, relatively, fast at it as well. M.S. was 2 years. Ph.D. was 4 years of research, 3 years of writing. Though I spent the last 2 years of writing ABD working full time for a "startup".
I really enjoyed my time in grad school. I was a computational physicist, doing molecular dynamics. The reason I went into academia was lack of professor positions . The writing was on the wall. So I decided to go the industrial route.
With the impending closure of my latest venture, I am looking around at options, and am actively interviewing. As it turns out, it looks like my thesis advisor is retiring at my alma mater, and they have an open position.
I am thinking deeply as to whether or not I really want to do physics. The pay is terrible, and I am marked as an "undesirable" as I had left academia.
I'll keep looking for my next place. This said, the Ph.D. was a good thing to do. I learned a tremendous amount, not just about a narrow area, but how to compute, measure, and reason about things that are complex.
Seems like this is in demand now. Makes me happy.
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.
> even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever. Why? I know an academic who has done exactly that. Nearing retirement now.
Postdocs at most universities pay little - often less than many engineers with a BS degree will make.
Eventually you need the money for retirement...
Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers
#130I'm a physics phd student, but I did my undergrad in cs+physics at well known school in the midwest. I really regret going to grad school for physics, I gave up a lot of earning potential, time to develop new skills and I've forgotten a lot of my CS background. Most methods in my area have already been developed and the pressure to publish (pushy advisor, several projects not producing the intended results, and propo…
A few points.
I spent 7 years in grad school, then quit without a PhD. I don't regret it for a minute. I managed to spend 7 years studying topics that interest me, that I will not get to study had I gone straight into industry. Sure, while working you may have some spare time to study some math/physics. But nowhere near at the level you could/did in grad school. There's really no comparison.
If you're not happy in grad school, perhaps:
1. You don't like your research topic.
2. You don't like your advisor.
As an example, I did not have a very pushy advisor, so I learned what I did in a very relaxed manner. Bad idea if I were to end up in academia as a career, but it worked out great for me.
It does suck not finishing the PhD, but once I was in industry, I saw the jobs that most PhDs in my research topic would have ended up with - and most of those jobs are horrible. I worked with them for 4 years, and moved into programming. While the satisfaction of solving really challenging problems is no longer there, the programming job overall really is much better: More autonomy, more creativity, better work schedule, etc.
But bottom line: Grad school is for learning the stuff you are passionate about. If you're not doing that, either change your topic/advisor, or leave.