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Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

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Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#81

Post by asafira »

Whoa! I am actually currently in a physics PhD program, in my last 1-2 years, and have been pursuing internship opportunities for the summer. For me, I've actually wanted to get my PhD in physics and then work in tech for as long as I can remember (so it's not primarily that I feel like the academic job market is too competitive for me, or doesn't pay enough, but those are pretty good reasons, too...) .

I actually have often found it awkward to fit into the usual computer science bins that companies organize projects into. In addition to a hefty amount of data analysis and software engineering, my PhD has required knowledge from a wide variety of different types of engineering, including optics, microwave engineering, and semiconductor fabrication. Combining everything into a 1-page resume, I've found it's not super obvious where my placement would be within most companies. I am currently in the team-matching phase for a google internship, for example, but haven't heard anything.

For those that are getting themselves in the door, do you have any tips?

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#82

Post by asafira »

hprotagonist wrote: post #10
princeb wrote: post #4

move over javascript, matlab will soon rule silicon valley! edit: this is just a tongue in cheek comment that physicists will rule silicon valley with about the same chance of success matlab will be used for enterprise dev.

you must be thinking mechanical engineers. Real Physicists use fortran.

Pencil and paper is where it's at.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#83

Post by sciurus »

NumberSix wrote: post #62
crazypyro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone curious, here's a one year phd employment survey for physics: https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/statistics/employmen... 803 responses, 297 in potentially full-time positions. 62% (of all physics phds employed at potentially full-time positions) in non-physics field, break down by industry: Engineering - 20% Computer software - 14% Business or Finance - 11% Other sciences - 8% Education - 2% Medical s…

The use of the phrase "potentially permanent positions" in the AIP report for industry positions, especially in the computer industry, is highly misleading. Academia, including some government labs and institutes, has tenured positions and other positions with guarantees of job security until retirement. The vast majority of industry employees are "at will" and can be laid off at any time for any reason or no reason.…

I don't understand your strong objection to the phrase "potentially permanent position". Do you believe that the AIP is trying to mislead students into believing programming jobs in the private sector have tenure!?

To me "potentially permanent" seems like a serviceable phrase to encompass positions in academia and in industry that do not have an end data built in to them. It contrasts them to "temporary" positions like postdocs in academia or contractors in industry where you know going into the job that your employment ends on a certain date.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#84

Post by asafira »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #40

Does anyone else think that general programming education (not necessarily computer science) is overrated? I much rather hire people that I know can think in both in terms of fundamental logical principles, and who understand the scientific method, which comes up more than one expects in business. For example, I've seen physicists run much better marketing analytics than "growth hackers". And who cares if someone can…

How would you recommend searching for those sorts of roles that aren't just cog-in-a-machine but require a good bit of technical ability and creativity on the job? No offense, but if you look at most job listings (even on hacker news), they often specifically mention technologies and languages one should already have a background in, and it's definitely not clear they would take someone that has succeeded in differing technical challenges.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#85

Post by smallnamespace »

throw_away_777 wrote: post #71
randlet wrote: post #20

This is a pretty common career path I think once people realize that finding a well paying physics gig is much much tougher than just becoming a developer. Every physicist has at least some programming experience and are generally adept at problem solving. Coding was always way more fun than doing 4th year/grad school level physics for me too. Also, it is especially tough to get a job if you're a mediocre physicist (…

On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.

My first boss's boss told the story of how he got into finance from being an assistant physics professor.

For a few years, he started checking the median age of physics professors, and noticed it went up every year instead of down. Tenured profs decided to stay in their seats instead of retiring, and there were no new positions being created for young professors. That was his indication to get out (this was during the mid 90s).

The real crux of the problem is that modern PhD programs were originally designed post WW2, in the era of the GI bill and fast expansion of college education where there was high demand for new professors. That's no longer the case, but we still train PhDs as if they would get a job even though most won't.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#86

Post by avn2109 »

tmoot wrote: post #11

I'm a physics phd student, but I did my undergrad in cs+physics at well known school in the midwest. I really regret going to grad school for physics, I gave up a lot of earning potential, time to develop new skills and I've forgotten a lot of my CS background. Most methods in my area have already been developed and the pressure to publish (pushy advisor, several projects not producing the intended results, and propo…

We hire people with your exact profile for data science jobs all the time. You should be applying to DS jobs like there's no tomorrow.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#87

Post by smallnamespace »

jessriedel wrote: post #75
throw_away_777 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average, a tenured physics professor will graduate a bit more than 10 PhD students over the course of their career. Physics as a field is not growing, so at most 10% of PhD students become professors. If you don't become a tenured professor there are very few jobs that aren't postdocs, and even if you wanted to you can't keep doing postdocs forever.

Do you have a source for the rough number 10? I'd have guessed the average is more, even if the median is 10ish.

It really depends on the field -- fields with labwork tend to have more PhDs per professor because there's an incentive to get cheap labor.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#88

Post by NumberSix »

avn2109 wrote: post #80
NumberSix wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The report is probably aimed at young people, college students in particular, investigating pursuing a Ph.D., who often are unfamiliar with the work world. "Potentially permanent positions" in the computer industry is not going to fool someone who has been working in the computer industry more than a few years. College or high school students are a different matter and won't automatically equate "potential permanent…

"Potentially permanent positions" is a euphemism for "tenure track research job."

Yes, that is my point. There are almost no jobs in the private sector, especially the computer industry, analogous to a "tenure track research job." Possibly some corporate research labs like HP Labs, which have nearly all been downsized heavily or completely eliminated since the 1990s, have positions like this. The vast majority of Ph.D. physicists who move on to industry are getting some type of software development job which are "at will full time" jobs with no future prospect of something like tenure.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#89

Post by vitaminbandit »

elliott34 wrote: post #69

Doesn't really seem like the author spoke to a lot of actual physicists to write this article. Don't get me wrong, physics majors attract a certain type of intellect, but the vast majority of curriculum (quantum, EM, mechanics) are things THAT HAVE BARELY CHANGED IN THE PAST 50 YEARS. Meanwhile, CS majors come out much more prepared and hirable on the job market. As far as the machine learning market goes, 90% of the…

How is the notion that "the vast majority of curriculum (quantum, EM, mechanics) are things THAT HAVE BARELY CHANGED IN THE PAST 50 YEARS" relevant to this discussion?

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#90

Post by tnecniv »

koolba wrote: post #79
URSpider94 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years would be on the very short end these days. Most doctoral programs in math and the sciences are a MINIMUM of four years, with average terms creeping up to 6. Never say never, but a 2-year doctorate is pretty much unheard-of. Some people think of this as 2 years for a Masters and 2 more for PhD, but in practice most hard science programs don't really offer a true Masters program. When I got my doctorate, a b…

Ah I must have been mixing up Masters and PhD.

Stats for European schools can also be different. I know of some that have short PhD programs but require you complete a masters before applying.
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