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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#281

Post by friedman23 »

chrisper wrote: post #139
intralizee wrote: post #85

I would love to go to France. I'm in US right now, 1 semester left for degree and have interned at a respectable company. I wonder if they're looking for experienced engineers over fresh ones. I've read so much that work life and culture is so much better in France, so heres hoping...

You know, a lot of CS people in the US seem to really love the US and say stuff like "it sucks not to be in the US." They usually mention how they can afford everything since they make so much money and how they prefer to work 600 hours a week instead of having forced days off and that health care through Employer is so much better than through government. Admittedly, this was on Reddit, which is just a huge echo cha…

> how they prefer to work 600 hours a week instead of having forced days off

Your idea of jobs in the US is wrong. I work 40 hrs a week and sometimes that goes up to 45 or 50 but not often. I get breakfast and lunch provided to me (also dinner but I don't stay for it because I would go insane) and I make 150k + 80k a year in equity. You could also however work at amazon and get paid the same but also work 60 hours a week (Amazon is the exception and has a very bad reputation).

> health care through Employer is so much better than through government

Health care through the employer can be significantly better than through the government. It can also be worse.

If you are a high performer in the US, it is perfect.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#282

Post by delphinius81 »

dv_dt wrote: post #107
intralizee wrote: post #85

I would love to go to France. I'm in US right now, 1 semester left for degree and have interned at a respectable company. I wonder if they're looking for experienced engineers over fresh ones. I've read so much that work life and culture is so much better in France, so heres hoping...

SMH, I'm thinking there a number of mid to late career senior US engineers wondering what opportunities there might be in Europe these days...

Absolutely! I feel like once you get out of your 20s, finding the right work-life balance and general quality of life becomes more important. You can also better appreciate cost of living - gross salary isn't as important as what you have left over after you pay all your bills. Once kids come into the picture, the big expenses in the US like child-care, school, and coverage for your family on your health insurance plan takes a huge chunk out of your salary anyway. It's not a tax like in many European countries, but it's not money going into your savings either.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#283

Post by jchampem »

Igpoawsh wrote: post #270
bankim wrote: post #82

What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?

Another data point (throwaway for privacy reasons) -- senior data scientist, 5 years experience, in Paris, working for a large American networking company. I am making 65 kEUR gross incl. bonus, i.e. 40 kEUR after all taxes. And I am happy to be leaving soon for job in London paying 85 kGBP gross.

Afaik, rents in London are pretty outrageous if you don't want something at the far end of a Tube line...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#284

Post by scurvy »

omginternets wrote: post #211
chrisper wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't a lot of people in France look at you badly if you only speak English? I read that this is especially true in more "proud French areas" like Paris etc.

Short answer: no. This may have been true at one point in time, but it's certainly no longer the case. I think this myth comes from a mix of two things: a) differences in intonation that some people (mostly Americans) interpret as aggressive or hostile, when really they're not b) the possibility that this was true in the past (e.g. during the 50's, perhaps because the French were eager to see stationed GIs leave)

Yes and no. It was still there in the late 90's and early aughts. That said Parisians just don't like anyone not from Paris. They look down on other French people not from Paris. When you're from Paris, then you'll be judged on your arrondissement. Basically, Paris is a really judgy place but the rest of the country isn't. This isn't all that different from other countries' major cities (NYC, London, etc).

That said, you'll get by, meet a lot of nice people from all over, get to vacation regularly in places which are "once in a lifetime travels" for most Americans, etc.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#285

Post by School-Cotton »

esw wrote: post #272
adventured wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making the kind of money being discussed here, such that you trigger higher bracket income taxes, have great health insurance in the US as well. Further, decent jobs in the US almost always include health insurance compensation above the salary. I have a brother that works in a pretty normal job earning $42,000 per year (not an outsized salary in the US), he pays $27 per month for his health insurance through…

>he pays $27 per month for his health insurance through his employer, and it's a nice plan. This is really an outlier. The US average for employee premiums is $104/month for individuals and $392/month for families.

That might be an outlier relative to the whole population, but is it one relative to good tech jobs?

I pay $0 for health insurance, for example, and what I get is perfectly good.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#286

Post by Chris2048 »

pyrale wrote: post #233
Chris2048 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus employee welfare in France is ridiculous, ultimately harmful to their economy..

We've actually had this welfare for 70 years, and the harm was supposed to come any minute now for all this time. Ultimately, its demise is likely going to come from the propaganda against it rather from it actually being a problem.

Who says you haven't seen harm? You're erecting a straw-man.

Also, you have to factor in that when the coffers are empty, France may be more willing to sell weapons abroad... So maybe it's not France that sees that harm.

http://www.france24.com/en/20150503-arms-sales-becoming-fran...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#288

Post by scrollaway »

dest wrote: post #253
scrollaway wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is off-topic. But you are completely off the mark. Health insurance: What you linked is an amendment that adds sanctions to illegally refusing social security coverage. Whether you think that's OK or not is irrelevant - it's not a speech issue. "saying you should not do abortion": You are grossly misrepresenting what that is. Abortion is considered an integral right for french women. What your link…

About state health insurance, this link should be clearer, despite not being an official source. People with more Google-fu than me can post other links if they wish. http://www.agipi.com/espace-public/consulter-nos-experts/san... "Depuis le 1er janvier 2007, des sanctions contre toute personne qui, par quelque moyen que ce soit, inciterait les assurés sociaux à ne plus s’affilier à un organisme de Sécurité sociale o…

> [inciting] people to have no health insurance at all can get you to jail (up to 6 months).

As your previous source said, not having health insurance is illegal in France. We're a far cry from your original "saying that you don't need health insurance". You can say that as much as you want. You just can't push other people to put themselves in an illegal situation.

> If it is not limitation of freedom of speech, I think it is very close.

[Translated context: It would become illegal to falsify facts about the consequences of abortion]

I want to be very clear: The american concept of "Freedom of speech" does not exist in most of Europe. In most of the world outside of the US in fact. It's even a stretch to say it exists in the US.

When people think "limitations on freedom of speech" they immediately think China and Iran. But in the US, I can't threaten the president (or people in general, but nobody's gonna jail me for that). I can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. I could give you a lot of american examples which are far more grey area than what you've given me in these sources. The US has these limitations, generally for public safety.

In the context of a US-centric forum, claiming that "you can get jailed for speaking against abortions" is abhorrent because the US is still at the stage where abortions are not considered a fundamental right, and there is an ongoing debate about it. Therefore, you think "well, then, half the US would go to jail".

In the context of a country that does have a framework around abortion, that does make it a fundamental right and where it's essentially a non-issue... then it's a lot easier to see why it's illegal to publish false information about it.

This is a country where gays and muslims are treated with respect, where women's rights are respected and where public health is highly valued. In that context, these restrictions are, like american ones, a matter of public safety.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#289

Post by tom_mellior »

bankim wrote: post #82

What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?

> What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris?

Looking at what StackOverflow's Jobs tab spits out right now, I see: software engineer Java 38k-60k; software engineer Python 40k-55k; DevOps engineer (not your idea, I guess? there's a number of these) 40k-55k; developer for 3D applications 38k-48k; ...

Then there is one for a senior Java engineer for 47k-59k and right above another one for a senior Java engineer for 60k-120k.

These numbers are gross. Based on other posts, deduct 35-40% to account for things taken out of your paycheck (including health care) plus the income tax and rental tax you have to pay after. Rent for a small apartment in Paris starts about 1000 Euros per month and rises steeply.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#290

Post by Chris2048 »

throwaway1892 wrote: post #276
Chris2048 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Begging the question - what do you do, and how long have you worked...

I've had my Engineer's Degrees from ISEP last year and I'm working at Alten since October 2016. My official title is development engineer (Ingénieur d'études). Before that, I've done two six-months internship as a junior java dev. Alten is a technology and engineering consulting company, which means, in the context of the French market, that when a company, need a particular profile (like java dev) to staff a positio…

Sound like a temp agency, ala Accenture.

Does it track market rates? I've worked for a company before that took fresh grads, and relied strongly on them never entering the market for themselves and realising what market rate was.

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