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Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

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Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#41
I myself have only a CS background (BSc + MSc in CS), and I am working in IT for last 8 years. Initially, I used to have negative opinion towards people from other non-CS backgrounds able to get jobs as Software Engineers and as IT Managers/Directors.

Now for the past 5 years, I am highly appreciative of such people because each of them bring knowledge and interesting viewpoints from their respective academic/training backgrounds which serves to enrich the IT world. Thank you guys :-)

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#42

Anderson left Harvard before getting his PhD because he came to view the field much as Boykin does—as an intellectual pursuit of diminishing returns. But that’s not the case on the internet. “Implicit in ‘the internet’ is the scope, the coverage of it,” Anderson says. “It makes opportunities are much greater, but it also enriches the challenge space, the problem space. There is intellectual upside.” Was thinking of p…

I did a master's in econometrics and that was my experience. In the last year of my undergrad, I took a course in machine learning that seemed to have way more intellectual rigor than any of the material covered in grad school.

At one point, I mentioned to the professor that I was concerned that the model he had presented was overfitting, and he had no understanding of what the term meant. I think that economics studies fascinating problems (how do people make choices? What are the optimal choices for policy makers to make?) but economists approach the problem completely wrong.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#43
This migration of physicists to the Silicon Valley and computer industry is not new. It has been true at least since the first big physics employment bubble crashed in the late 1960's, early 1970's. The post-Sputnik boom in physics degrees and grad students produced a huge surplus of physicists by the late 1960's. Dennis Ritchie started at Bell Labs in 1967. Back in the 60's, 70's, early 80's a fair number of physicists decamped for Bell Labs, mostly to work on computer and telecommunications related activities.

A high profile example is Emanuel Derman, author of My Life as a Quant (2004) and later books, who worked at Bell Labs from 1980 to 1985 before moving on to Wall Street. He mentions quite a number of other physicists at Bell Labs at the same time.

Most physicists end up in some sort of software development. The high profile "quant" jobs are actually rather rare and hard to get. The Wall Street firms are typically going after very strong physicists, especially theoretical physicists like Derman.

Nathan Myhrvold of Microsoft and Intellectual Ventures fame (or infamy) has a Ph.D. in theoretical physics from Princeton. Did not go to Wall Street. :-)

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) produced a huge surplus of experimental particle physics (high energy physics) Ph.D.'s with no jobs in the field. Experimental particle physics involves large amounts of software development for data acquisition, instrument monitoring and control, and data analysis, mostly in C and C++, although there is still some "legacy" FORTRAN software. The heyday of FORTRAN in physics was a long time ago.

Although there have been attempts to use neural networks and other machine learning methods in particle physics, the workhorse of data analysis in the field is Ronald Fisher's maximum likelihood estimation and classification -- primarily estimation of parameters such as the mass and width of the Higgs Boson. The discovery of the Higgs was a maximum likelihood analysis.

Although it is undoubtedly possible to map maximum likelihood onto neural networks, in practice they are different. Neural networks are an attempt to simulate the low level structure of the neurons in the brain and solve problems by brute force fitting of data to models with huge numbers of adjustable parameters. In contrast, maximum likelihood involves attempts to understand the phenomenon under study and model it as a small number of functions corresponding to higher level concepts such as the Higgs Boson. A neural net could exactly fit the Higgs Boson peak yet never produce or confirm a physical model of what causes the peak.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#44

Physicists have been taking jobs as software engineers since the 90s. Career-wise, physics is the comparative literature of the exact sciences.

I was ahead of the curve - I did it in 1985. Never used any of the physics, either...

... until 20 years into my career, when I got hired by that medical instruments place that was doing 3D reconstructions of patient anatomy from a series of 2D X-rays. Then it was 3D coordinate transforms, Fourier transforms, some other calculus, plus radiation physics.

A lot of stuff you learn isn't relevant to your career - until it is.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#45
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impostor syndrome seems bogus but only because I've never experienced it and therefore can't understand it. Why do you feel like an impostor? The world is analog, not digital. There's no rite of passage that will suddenly switch you from being an "impostor" to being "legitimate". I've met EE majors who turned out to be better software developers than CS majors and vice versa.

First, a tip -- if you genuinely want to learn more about something, don't start by saying it "seems bogus". Not the best way to open up a discussion. On to your question: It's hard to pin down the exact root cause, but it seems (in my case at least) to stem from being an outsider -- a y in a sea of x's. When everyone else doing your job has a specific attribute that you don't, you can start to wonder whether you rea…

But, see, for every single person in the standup, there's something. "If they figure out that I'm not as smart", or "that I don't really understand Android", or Java, or Eclipse, or databases, or that I went to a lesser school, or...

Here's a group of people. Compared to each one of them, I know less about something. It's really easy to go from that to feeling like I know less about what I'm supposed to be doing than everyone else.

I don't really experience this, I suspect because of arrogance. I'm not sure that's really an improvement, though...

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#46

Does anyone else think that general programming education (not necessarily computer science) is overrated? I much rather hire people that I know can think in both in terms of fundamental logical principles, and who understand the scientific method, which comes up more than one expects in business. For example, I've seen physicists run much better marketing analytics than "growth hackers". And who cares if someone can…

I would agree. I'd much rather deal with people who are good at math or know something about a particular industry. If you are a little disciplined and accept that there are some rules to follow learning software development is not that hard.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#48
post #9

Physicists are one hell of science and engineering badasses. I know many physicists who became hardware engineers and even software engineers when they needed it. I know no software/hardware engineer who became physicist.

Depending on what "being a physicist" means, I did. Went from EE undergrad to physics PhD. Then worked in s/w but still tinker on physics projects on the side.

GRTensorIII (https://gitlab.com/grtensor/grtensor/wikis/home)

An iOS/Android app for Three Body simulations (Three Body) and a Unity gravity simulator (Gravity Engine).

I would have loved to make a living wage in physics but the post-doc path is badly paid.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#49
Did physics undergrad, worked as a developer for a couple of years, then did a computational physics PhD, now firmly back as a developer.

I would do open ended research if there were any jobs going, but there generally aren't. And I'd be just as happy in computer science as physics.

Re: Physicists taking jobs as Silicon Valley software engineers

#50

Physicists have been taking jobs as software engineers since the 90s. Career-wise, physics is the comparative literature of the exact sciences.

/me raises hand Degree in physics, working software for 20 years and still feel like an impostor ... not that I remember any physics at this stage

In 1997, I met my former professor of Quantum Mechanics and he said, "I hear you've gone over to the Dark Side". He was referring to the start of my professional software development career. I'd been an amateur developer for a decade prior to that, but took a break to pursue a degree in physics.

We had a long discussion during which I told him that I'd always wanted to program computers, but didn't think it made sense to get a degree doing something I could learn in my bedroom. Physics, on the other hand, was fascinating, and could only be truly learnt and appreciated from people who'd devoted their lives to it.

20 years later, I think those years of training in physics have made me a better developer, and taught me to better see patterns in data. To prefer "good enough for the task at hand and elegant enough to be proud of" over "perfect" (which is what many of my math friends ended up seeking).

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