Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Phone numbers are not proper verification

b1nary.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 159 posts

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#131

Post by herbst »

al2o3cr wrote: post #105

"A phone number is nothing you can just keep. Also i OWN my emails domains." I don't get the distinction the author is trying to make: if you stop paying the renewal fees for them you'll find you "own" those domains exactly as much as you "own" a phone number.

My phone contract clearly stated that the contract can be cancelled anytime by the provider without prior notice.

Taking away a domain is a costly, long and usually failing process.

Sure i need to pay for both

I agree that i worded that badly tho

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#132

Post by akjainaj »

herbst wrote: post #67
akjainaj wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in Switzerland. If you can create a phone number with a Thai carrier from there, I am sure you understand why Twitter refuses to deal with such a carrier.

I dont. I live in Thailand right now, tomorrow maybe in Vietnam. Right now i might be a edge case but remote work is growing fast. You can create throwaway SMS numbers for a few cents with several online providers, some even accept Bitcoin payments and dont ask for a name and Twitter accepts them happily. Its just the third party provider they use that did not implement that specific carrier yet. Edit:// Also i am cu…

The "about" section of your website says you live in Switzerland.

At least here it's not legal for a mobile operator to give you a phone number if they don't have your ID (not even a prepaid number) so I supposed it was the same in the whole EU. Therefore I imagined you heard somewhere there's an operator in Thailand that lets you get a number without giving an ID, maybe even for free, so you wanted to get one to auth in Twitter. But such a system would be abused by spammers so Twitter had blocked that operator already.

Yes, quite the elucubration, I know.

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#133

Post by herbst »

akjainaj wrote: post #132
herbst wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont. I live in Thailand right now, tomorrow maybe in Vietnam. Right now i might be a edge case but remote work is growing fast. You can create throwaway SMS numbers for a few cents with several online providers, some even accept Bitcoin payments and dont ask for a name and Twitter accepts them happily. Its just the third party provider they use that did not implement that specific carrier yet. Edit:// Also i am cu…

The "about" section of your website says you live in Switzerland. At least here it's not legal for a mobile operator to give you a phone number if they don't have your ID (not even a prepaid number) so I supposed it was the same in the whole EU. Therefore I imagined you heard somewhere there's an operator in Thailand that lets you get a number without giving an ID, maybe even for free, so you wanted to get one to aut…

Ah ok lol i see. I think i wrote "based in Switzerland" which mostly means thats where i store my desktop pc :) Actually in thailand, cambodia, vietnam and so on you also have to provide your passport. The only place that i know of that does not (until recently at least) is Austria. Most webservices dont require a passport tho, even for european numbers. But i have no idea about the legality so no idea.

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#134

Post by jedimastert »

herbst wrote: post #121
jedimastert wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a phone number and a domain actually have way more similarities than I think this guy wants to say. You don't own your domain, your registrar does and you are leasing it. Sure, generally you go year to year instead of month to month, but in the end you don't own your domain either. And it's way easier for someone to target you.

I dont know about other countries, carriers or contracts. But my contract clearly stated that my phone provider can cancel the account anytime without prior notice if they think that is necessary. Its a typical piece of text you find in many service based business contracts. I dont claim to know what exactly this means, but it surely is a difference to having to sue me for a valid reason to be allowed to take over my…

Looking at the Namecheap TOS[1], it says they can terminate you at any time.

[1]https://www.namecheap.com/legal/domains/registration-agreeme...

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#135

Post by Zak »

akjainaj wrote: post #130
Zak wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more mainstream problem would be moving, or even traveling for a moderate amount of time to another country. Within the EU, that's fairly common, as many countries are rather small and the borders between them are rather open. For comparison with the US, the barriers to this are a little higher than moving to another state, but not a lot higher. Having important services tied to a phone number, which remains relati…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/11707837...

roaming providers will be able to apply a 'fair use policy' to prevent abusive use of roaming. This would include using roaming services for purposes other than periodic travel

So very much a partial solution. In particular, it's no good for someone who moves long-term or, say, someone studying in another country. Simply changing phone numbers with a bunch of services is a serious pain in the ass even if they all consider the new number acceptable.

As an American currently living in Germany, I've run in to this kind of problem myself. My mobile banking app, for example wants to send an SMS for verification because it thinks connecting from an non-US IP address is suspicious, but I can't give it a non-US phone number to do that with. Providing a different option for 2FA would be a big help.

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#136

Post by delinka »

al2o3cr wrote: post #105

"A phone number is nothing you can just keep. Also i OWN my emails domains." I don't get the distinction the author is trying to make: if you stop paying the renewal fees for them you'll find you "own" those domains exactly as much as you "own" a phone number.

"A phone number is nothing you can just keep."

In the US, you certainly can keep a phone number. You can take it from one telecom service provider to another. But you do indeed have to keep paying your bill to maintain this ability.

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#137

Post by Zak »

herbst wrote: post #115
Zak wrote: post #112

Coinbase blocked my account from buying and refused to explain themselves after I changed the phone number associated with Authy. If true (they refused to explain themselves, after all), that's an incredibly backwards approach for a company based on the (possible) future of money to take.

Not sure where i got that from, i dont have that written. Coinbase was super nice but they had a issue with the API callback from Authy which did not reenable my account again. Coinbase however blocks accounts for gambling, but they usually mention the why.

I didn't participate in any gambling or do business with somebody whose business includes gambling to my knowledge. I barely used the account at all after initially setting it up when building something for a client (an entirely non-shady company that you've probably heard of) that used their API.

They said this:

Unfortunately a manual review has determined that you are ineligible to use the Coinbase platform to purchase Bitcoin. We’re sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause.

And when asked why, they said this:

Sadly, I don’t have any information before me to answer as to why such a decision was taken, but this decision is final.

The only thing I can think of that I did that might have been suspicious was to access the service from outside the US and switch Authy to a non-US phone number after previously using a US phone number.

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#138

Post by baq »

herbst wrote: post #131
al2o3cr wrote: post #105

"A phone number is nothing you can just keep. Also i OWN my emails domains." I don't get the distinction the author is trying to make: if you stop paying the renewal fees for them you'll find you "own" those domains exactly as much as you "own" a phone number.

My phone contract clearly stated that the contract can be cancelled anytime by the provider without prior notice. Taking away a domain is a costly, long and usually failing process. Sure i need to pay for both I agree that i worded that badly tho

> Taking away a domain is a costly, long and usually failing process.

source please, including your registrar's TOS

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#139

Post by mojuba »

jedimastert wrote: post #111
al2o3cr wrote: post #105

"A phone number is nothing you can just keep. Also i OWN my emails domains." I don't get the distinction the author is trying to make: if you stop paying the renewal fees for them you'll find you "own" those domains exactly as much as you "own" a phone number.

Having a phone number and a domain actually have way more similarities than I think this guy wants to say. You don't own your domain, your registrar does and you are leasing it. Sure, generally you go year to year instead of month to month, but in the end you don't own your domain either. And it's way easier for someone to target you.

The essential difference though is that mobile carriers are less trustworthy than the most trustworthy domain registrars. Plus mobile networks are usually controlled by a single authority in each country, whereas the Internet and its domain name system is a bit more democratic. It's all relative of course, but still.

So given a choice I'd rely on my email address more than "my" phone number.

Re: Phone numbers are not proper verification

#140

Post by herbst »

jedimastert wrote: post #134
herbst wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know about other countries, carriers or contracts. But my contract clearly stated that my phone provider can cancel the account anytime without prior notice if they think that is necessary. Its a typical piece of text you find in many service based business contracts. I dont claim to know what exactly this means, but it surely is a difference to having to sue me for a valid reason to be allowed to take over my…

Looking at the Namecheap TOS[1], it says they can terminate you at any time. [1] https://www.namecheap.com/legal/domains/registration-agreeme...

You are twisting reality here. It says they warn me 30 days prior and if i do not move my domains until then they will terminate it.

Which makes sense, they dont have, for some reason, keep me as client if they dont want to.

Post reply on HN