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President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

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Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice Godwin there. Couldn't it be that Mahmoud is simply loved by his people? And it's not like the hypothetical killer of a US president would simply walk away from court.

You have no idea how this works.

The failed coup d'etat in Turkey opened my eyes.

Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#44

I hope Donald will stay at home. Every presidential visit brings multi-million city to a halt. It has similar effect as an earthquake, major fire or other natural disaster. It is recommended not open windows, there is risk of snipers. International airport is closed for several hours for a single airplane. And main roads are closed everyday while president is traveling. I still remember New Orleans. People could not…

We get to deal with this every day in NYC for the foreseeable future. Hundreds of millions of dollars and quite a few nearby businesses down the drain.

Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#46
post #9

Here's another nifty visualisation - this time with drone strikes: http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/

The statement that only 2% are high profile targets is kind of misleading. The vetting that goes into assessing whether military age males are actually doing bad things is surprisingly high. I am not saying mistakes were not made. Civilians and kids have died for sure, but the majority of those killed were combatants. Implying otherwise makes me doubt the veracity of the other claims here. Nifty visualization though.

Is the vetting truly that high?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-am-on-the-us-kill-list...

From what you write, I understand that you mean mistakes in targeting/dropping bombs, but not mistakes in assessing/choosing the target themselves. Or do you mean otherwise?

Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#47
post #20
post #9

Here's another nifty visualisation - this time with drone strikes: http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/

I like the fact that the site includes all killed people. With 20% civilian casualties rate, the recent announcement of 50000 killed people in Syria/Iraq means US may have directly killed 10000 civilians in just the last two years there. https://airwars.org/ reports a lower number though. But theirs is a very conservative estimate. I wonder when will this escalation stop. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middl…

What's your source for the 20% civilian casualties rate?

According to https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/obama-administration-fin... the numbers published by the Obama administration are "a fraction of even the most conservative estimates on drone-related killings catalogued by reporters and researchers over the same period."

Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#48

I hope Donald will stay at home. Every presidential visit brings multi-million city to a halt. It has similar effect as an earthquake, major fire or other natural disaster. It is recommended not open windows, there is risk of snipers. International airport is closed for several hours for a single airplane. And main roads are closed everyday while president is traveling. I still remember New Orleans. People could not…

A couple of years back I saw president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran on TV talking to a group of people in Tehran. He just stood on the top of a car with a megaphone and a big crowd of people surrounded him. Sure there were a few bodyguards, but you if you wanted you could pretty much tap him on the shoulder. Now I don't want to overestimate the merits of Iranian democracy, but I was kind of impressed by this. Compare…

TV appearances don't always show how well the crowd was monitored and people in it vetted and searched. And I can think of plenty of Western leaders that have made TV appearances standing in the middle of an apparent non hand-picked crowd. John Major standing on a soapbox surrounded by crowds jeering at him and waving placards condemning his government springs to mind. (Imagine a crowd being allowed to do that in Iran!)

The US president is a more potent symbol of his country's power and values than Iran's president and thus a more conspicuous target (even without taking into account the importance America citizens attach to possessing firearms as a supposed bulwark against tyranny)

Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#49
post #9

Here's another nifty visualisation - this time with drone strikes: http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/

The statement that only 2% are high profile targets is kind of misleading. The vetting that goes into assessing whether military age males are actually doing bad things is surprisingly high. I am not saying mistakes were not made. Civilians and kids have died for sure, but the majority of those killed were combatants. Implying otherwise makes me doubt the veracity of the other claims here. Nifty visualization though.

How do you know? Internal documents concerning a five month period of airstrikes in Afghanistan showed that around 90% of individuals killed were not the intended targets.

Re: President Obama's International Visits from 2009 to 2016

#50
post #47
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the fact that the site includes all killed people. With 20% civilian casualties rate, the recent announcement of 50000 killed people in Syria/Iraq means US may have directly killed 10000 civilians in just the last two years there. https://airwars.org/ reports a lower number though. But theirs is a very conservative estimate. I wonder when will this escalation stop. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middl…

What's your source for the 20% civilian casualties rate? According to https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/obama-administration-fin... the numbers published by the Obama administration are "a fraction of even the most conservative estimates on drone-related killings catalogued by reporters and researchers over the same period."

And that's in part because all males age 18-49 are automatically classified as militants.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-ob...

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