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Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

bbc.com

31–40 of 58 posts

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't trickle down economics supposed to redistribute portions of that wealth? If you agree that trickle down isn't working because the elite are capturing it for themselves, then you could conclude that them being rich is a contributing factor to these people being poor. No?

As I understand it, the 'trickle' comes in the form of, for example, cheaper food. Which, as a percentage of income, is something that we can see has actually happened. The remainder can be used to capture a portion of the wealth. The problem comes in actually using that money to capture wealth instead of increasing your expenses elsewhere. The latter of which is very easy to do.

I guess I'd prefer to see this in wages and similar. Rather than increasing wages with respect to inflation, they've stagnated, and profits for companies, shareholders, and owners are much higher.

> The problem comes in actually using that money to capture wealth instead of increasing your expenses elsewhere. The latter of which is very easy to do.

Absolutely. I think this is where the idea of trickle down economics fails. It assumes that mo' money mo' expenses. I guess there's only so much you can buy with 80 Billion before that assumption breaks down.

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#32

$425bn/3.6bn = $118 avg. Now, the $425bn are not liquid assets, so we can argue that each of the 3.6bn individuals on the bottom half are worth a lot, lot, more than $120 each (worth in the same sense as measuring the net worth of billionaires). For starters, they own thousands of labor hours. Maybe the problem is that we cannot create enough jobs and it is easier to blame Zuck and friends? It is a very dangerous ide…

Putting a king on a guillotine was also very dangerous idea.

Zuck can pay no taxes by donating his money to his wife foundation - something not really possible for regular taxpayer. WTF wealth distribution is this?

Rich paying their fair share is a good start.

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#34

What is the justification for this article being flagged?

You've been on the site for years, and quite a few of your recent comments have been about stories getting flagged. In your experience, why do you think other users might have flagged this one?

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#35
post #7

I believe there's a fundamental assumption among many that with time, life is becoming better for all. Even if this is true right now, one day it will not be true. Once no longer true, humanity is going to have to ask itself if the massive increases of inequality were worth it. Whether it's: 1. Global warming 2. Nuclear war 3. Mass unemployment 4. Resource depletion Or something else, I suspect the effects of the "bi…

From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

“Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western spiral arm of the galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this, at a distance of roughly ninety million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet, whose ape descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea. This planet has, or had, a problem, which was this. Most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small, green pieces of paper, which is odd, because on the whole, it wasn't the small, green pieces of paper which were unhappy. And so the problem remained, and lots of the people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake coming down from the trees in the first place, and some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no-one should ever have left the oceans. And then one day, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl, sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realised what it was that had been going wrong all this time and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no-one would have to get nalied to anything. Sadly, however, before she could get to a phone to tell anyone, the Earth was unexpectedly demolished to make way for a new hyperspace bypass and so the idea was lost forever.”

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#36
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a really interesting article.. I think the more surprising fact is that 7.5% of the bottom 10% are in the US. That's 50 million US citizens. That's pretty shocking. Edit: although since we're talking about people who have negative net worth.. perhaps it's only because they're able to borrow so much. I doubt a poor Indian or Nigerian would be able to borrow $100K for college.

It would look less shocking once one understand US poorest 5% are equal to India's richest 5% http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/01/americas-poor-indias-ric...

In terms of money perhaps, but in terms of life security, leisure time, etc I am in doubt the comparison really holds.

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, the 'trickle' comes in the form of, for example, cheaper food. Which, as a percentage of income, is something that we can see has actually happened. The remainder can be used to capture a portion of the wealth. The problem comes in actually using that money to capture wealth instead of increasing your expenses elsewhere. The latter of which is very easy to do.

I guess I'd prefer to see this in wages and similar. Rather than increasing wages with respect to inflation, they've stagnated, and profits for companies, shareholders, and owners are much higher. > The problem comes in actually using that money to capture wealth instead of increasing your expenses elsewhere. The latter of which is very easy to do. Absolutely. I think this is where the idea of trickle down economics…

> Rather than increasing wages with respect to inflation, they've stagnated

The data doesn't support this[1]. Wages are stagnant, but only with respect to inflation. Wages are increasing at rate of inflation, more or less.

> Absolutely. I think this is where the idea of trickle down economics fails.

For argument's sake, let's say that the 'trickle' has lead to food being $100/month cheaper. Do you put $100/month you have gained into the stock market, with average returns of 7%, or do you go and sign up for a smartphone plan?

If, assuming you are young, you choose the former, you will have an average wealth of ~$250,000 by the time you retire, which will then provide ~$18K per year recurring income to retire on. If you choose the latter, you will have ~$0 of wealth when you retire and no income.

The choice seems fairly obvious, but something tells me that most (myself included) would choose the smartphone phone plan instead. In reality, you are taking the wealth you have gained (~$250K) and are spending it on a service that you wanted to have instead (a smartphone).

So, I agree, that doesn't work. People have shown that they are willing to spend the gains they have made. But if we found a different way to funnel $250K onto the balance sheet, would that actually stop them from spending it? Or would they still find some way to turn that $250K of wealth into a smartphone (or whatever consumable someone wants to enjoy) and be no further ahead?

[1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#38

If the left killed the 8 and spread out the money so poor have double... the poor would be worse of.

Why would the poor be worse off? Also, "if the left killed.." ugh. Can we stop with the unintellectual partisan snipes?

Inflation

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#39

$425bn/3.6bn = $118 avg. Now, the $425bn are not liquid assets, so we can argue that each of the 3.6bn individuals on the bottom half are worth a lot, lot, more than $120 each (worth in the same sense as measuring the net worth of billionaires). For starters, they own thousands of labor hours. Maybe the problem is that we cannot create enough jobs and it is easier to blame Zuck and friends? It is a very dangerous ide…

> It is a very dangerous idea to seek a fairier distribution of wealth by taking it from the rich.

Sounds like a pretty straight-forward idea to me. How else best to achieve a fairer distribution? "Trickle down"?

Re: Eight billionaires 'as rich as world's poorest half'

#40

Misleading & annoying title. Those billionaires' wealth are all invested in wealth-producing assets. And the billionaries I know do plenty of philantropy. Power to the billionaires!

> Power to the billionaires!

At what point should it stop? Are we lucky that your friends are by your definition 'great guys', or are all billionaires by definition 'great guys'? Do I have to agree?

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