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Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

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Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#181

Post by TheCondor »

emptybits wrote: post #83
tyingq wrote: post #14

Zooming in, the belt says "Conti Drive System" on it. More info on that here: http://www.conti-drive-system.com/ They seem to be competing with the "Gates Carbon Drive", here: http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/ I know nothing of bicycles, but I do recall when automakers started replacing timing chains with timing belts. The results weren't always great, especially with interference engines where misaligned timing means…

I have a pair of friends that are serious tandem riders and they now run their premium touring tandem with Gates Carbon Drive. They switched from chain because, if you didn't know, tandem bikes with strong riders have a reputation for eating chains. (Premature stretch, leading to cog/ring wear, and eventually breakage because of the torque involved.) Belts are stronger than chains in some regards and I think high-tor…

Gates belts are dramatically stronger than chains. The bigger downside is the frame needs to built to accommodate the belt. The chain/belt passes through the rear triangle and you have to have a way to open it for a belt.

The transmission efficiency is probably nothing compared to the IGH and it's weight.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#182

Post by skrause »

johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

> The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does.

That has nothing do to with belt vs. chain, you can easily combine a chain with a gear hub and add a chain guard.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#183

Post by SwellJoe »

slewis wrote: post #74
bane wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up with a slew of craptastic second hand, thrift store and K-Mart level bikes since it was all we could afford (and as I grew, the bikes grew). We used to beat the living snot out of those bikes and I don't remember any of them costing more than $150 new and they either never broke or were easy to repair. I would expect to pay no more than around $300 for a similar quality of bike these days. The last time I w…

There were expensive bikes back then too. There are cheap bikes now. It depends where you look.

The cheap bikes are much cheaper today (in terms of build quality, though there are some that are, inflation-adjusted, lower priced than the cheapest bikes when I was a kid).

I mostly had cheap bikes as a kid, and they held up really well. The quality was lower than that of a "good" bike, but not remarkably so. My first two bikes, a Huffy (from K Mart) and a Ross Piranha (from Toys R Us) had Chromoly frames and forks, and held up to years of intense abuse (ramps, dirt jumping, lots of falling and running into things). When I started earning my own money, I bought a General RL Osborne, which was a significant upgrade...but, not orders of magnitude better.

The quality of what is sold at Walmart today, at least in the general case, is really low. I wouldn't trust the linked bike to be safe on day one, much less to hold up to years of service. I tried to fix up a friend's low end Schwinn, that was less than ten years old, but it would have been cheaper to buy an all new bike than to fix everything that was wrong with it (shifters didn't work, derailleur was broken, brakes were soggy and couldn't be adjusted to work well, the fork had shocks and would bottom out when applying brakes even lightly). The frame was definitely not chromoly (might have been aluminum, as it was pretty light weight, but could have been thin steel, too I guess). On the other hand, I have a mid-range Giant mountain bike that I bought in 1994 for about $480 that has often been my primary mode of transportation. It's needed new shifters one time, a couple of new cassettes, one new set of brake and shift cables, a new seat, one new rim (I ran into a fire hydrant at a pretty decent clip), and tubes and tires. It's taken a beating over the years.

I dunno what I'm trying to say, exactly, but I think the overall quality of bike-to-dollar has gone down, especially at the low end of the market. The mid range of the market still seems pretty good, when inflation adjusted, though I will note that finding an all chromoly frame and fork (or other high quality material) bike is much harder than it used to be, and it is impossible in the low end, where it used to be very easy.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#184

Post by protomyth »

johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

I just have a tough time believing a belt is better than a chain, when I've had two cars with timing belts break before the suggested replacement mileage, but never had the problem with a timing chain. It seems like the same would be true of a bicycle.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#185

Post by jessaustin »

crazygringo wrote: post #78
Unman wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Front brake will flip you over in an instant, I know because I've done it, even at slow speeds That's because you simply do not know how to ride a bicycle. In such a situation you need to get your weight back behind the saddle and modulate the application of the brake. O.P. is one hundred percent correct that you do not need a rear brake -- and I speak as someone that rode for several years in without one including…

I "simply don't know how to ride a bicycle?" That's a big assumption you're making there, buddy. I don't know how your particular weight is distributed on your particular bicycle or what, but you're spreading dangerously wrong ideas. If you're going downhill and a child runs out in the street from between cars and you need to stop, and you're a normal person on a normal bike, you need a rear brake, end of story. If y…

While I'm sure you've ridden lots, if you experiment a bit and try different braking techniques you'll learn how much more effective the front brake is. In fact the famous "fear of endo" is actually just a symptom of this: when the bike stops suddenly rather than slowly, some riders find they don't have their COG positioned far enough back to stay over the stopped bike. One never gets that with a rear brake, because as soon as the COG starts moving forward as it must when the bike slows, the rear tire rises off the ground and the rear brake no longer helps. On steeps, I often have my stomach rather than my butt on the saddle, because I want to be able to stop quickly without flipping.

I've actually faced the "child jumping out from behind a parked car" before, and I passed that test. When I jammed hard on both the front and rear, both tires locked, the rear tire swung around the side until even with the front (at that point it was no longer behind the COG so it rotated down instead of up), and I twisted my back foot to unclip and stomp. I looked at her, she looked at me, then she ran on across the street. Glad I wasn't driving a car!

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#186

Post by awqrre »

johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

Usually belts don't require grease... and to tell you the truth I don't see why they put that white belt guard on top...

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#187

Post by nrjdhsbsid »

protomyth wrote: post #184
johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

I just have a tough time believing a belt is better than a chain, when I've had two cars with timing belts break before the suggested replacement mileage, but never had the problem with a timing chain. It seems like the same would be true of a bicycle.

Chains are great if you drive a car to 125k miles and junk it, but I've recently started preferring belts since I try to make mine last 200.

Eventually the chain tensioners wear out and changing a chain is enough work that I usually scrap the car at that point. Belts are much easier to change, and perhaps more importantly, inspect.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#188

Post by scoofy »

protomyth wrote: post #184
johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

I just have a tough time believing a belt is better than a chain, when I've had two cars with timing belts break before the suggested replacement mileage, but never had the problem with a timing chain. It seems like the same would be true of a bicycle.

Chains on bicycles do break occasionally, and there are practical reasons why a belt is better, which is they don't need to be covered in black stain-your-pants-if-you-ever-touch-it grease.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#189

Post by n_e »

protomyth wrote: post #184
johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

I just have a tough time believing a belt is better than a chain, when I've had two cars with timing belts break before the suggested replacement mileage, but never had the problem with a timing chain. It seems like the same would be true of a bicycle.

A timing chain is wider, runs straight and most importantly is properly lubricated.

Also a timing belt lasts 100,000 miles and runs a lot faster than a bicyle belt.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#190

Post by david-given »

johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

My elder brother used to build bicycles out of bits he pulled out of a river. Like, literally.

He once built a bicycle that was so awful that it lasted him a complete undergraduate session at university, then a complete postgraduate session at a different university, and then I got it and it lasted me a complete (four-year) undergraduate session at a third university, and didn't get stolen once.

I only managed to get rid of it by leaving it, unlocked, in the hall of residence bike sheds, over the summer vacation. Even then it was possible the bin men just threw it away. But I like to think that it got thrown back into a river, and is waiting to rise again in future generations and make some other poor student's life a misery...

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