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Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

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Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#141
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember us using the hardware for a belt driven bike in a solar car race, I recall it offered higher efficiency than chain drives that were available. Edit: Actually I think the main draw was the continuous gear ratios you got, somewhat comparable to a CVT

This is true. There tends to be a lot of power loss due to friction from rotation of the links around the pins in a chain.

Chain drives are about as efficient as you can get, actually. Can be more efficient then meshed gears.. But only if the chain is properly maintained.

Belts may not have pins, but it still needs to simultaneously stretch and compress to go around pullies. The deformation and friction losses add up.

With the solar-powered EV the fact that belts lend themselves to a simple and reliable CVT (constant velocity transmission) probably made up for drive train losses. They could run the motor at the optimal RPM regardless of speed, which can make a huge difference.

With bicycling 'race bike image' and fashion plays a huge role in what people are willing to buy.

People tend to want to spend the money on aping 'Tour De France' bicycles. So high seats and low bars for a 'racing position'. Clipless peddles, high dollar light-weight components... Especially going from 32 spoke wheels to as few as 8 or even 4 spokes are all symptoms of this trend.

And that's just road bikes. Mountain bikes have their on trends with the heavy suspension components used for downhill that soak up all the energy from the rider, etc.

It's the bicycle equivalent of trying to use a Nascar or Class B Rally car for getting groceries. You end up with a really expensive, fragile, high-maintenance, really uncomfortable bike totally inappropriate for touring/commuting/trail riding.

Belt drives don't have a place in racing, so they usually don't have a place in most people's bicycles. The reality is that belts drives are a trade off between maintenance and efficiency.

This Ikea bicycle uses a 2-speed automatic geared hub with belt drive. It features built-in lights and a very upright riding position. It has front disk brake and rear coaster brake (you have to peddle backwards). It looks fairly heavy and ruggedly built.

The advantage of this is that it offers very simple controls and should be extremely low maintenance. It should accept abuse and neglect and run for a long time.

So things like... A family bicycle for running to the local store. Going on flat, level trails. It would be very nice for a 'campus bike' for universities or corporate areas were you spend time going from one building to another. Rental bikes.

It should lend itself to any situation were you are dealing with fairly flat ground, leisurely pace, and multiple people sharing the bicycle.

It won't ruin clothing, it won't spray water and dirt everywhere. You pants are not going to get caught in the gearing. You are not going to have rusted chains or dragging brakes. If it falls over you don't need to un-bend things or re-adjust derailleurs, etc.

The things to worry about this is the same for most Ikea products: Non-standard components, sizing and shockingly cheap components that sabotage the rest of the product. if it uses rugged and standard sizing/components for everything then it will probably be awesome... if not then it could be a turd.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reliance on a single coaster brake is dangerous. When a coaster brake fails, it can fail in two ways that are both very dangerous: full lock-up or full brake failure. They also have the tendency to catch at strange points in the pedal movement, like the vertical noon/6 position, which are difficult to establish the needed force to slow the bike. I have a Shimano Nexus 3 speed with a coaster (and hand brakes) that is…

You should get your coaster brake fixed, since it is apparently dangerous for you. I have never had a coaster brake failure. Nor have I experienced a problem with engaging the coaster brake as you describe. I have always found the single coaster brake to be more than adequate and to be more reliable than any (set of) handbrake(s). I like the fact that I can skid the rear tire if I apply enough force. I live in a non-…

I think coaster is fine as backup, but front brake should always be the primary brake as the braking distance using it is much much shorter.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#143

I've been keeping an eye on this bike's development for a while, and I'm not disappointed with the outcome. It's still more expensive than a box-store bike, but I hope that availability at IKEA will make it more appealing to college students. Internal gears and a belt drive will make for more interesting maintenance, but anything beats the hi-ten 18-speed monstrosities that currently dominate college campuses.

What's wrong with the hi-ten 18-speed bikes? Less elegant design?

Selling the wrong bike to the wrong person. A casual cyclist should have something that is simple, comfortable and reliable.

High-tensile steal will equate a rough ride. 18 gears and a transmission has a hugely larger number of points of failure, that's just math. And requires regular maintenance, which casual cyclists don't/won't do.

IMO most riders would be best served by Dutch style built-like-a-tank cruisers (which the IKEA is) or lightweight, ultra minimal single speed "hipster" street bikes. But the typical new rider gets a mountain bike for the road, or something designed to look like a racing bike that will be rattling and rusty after one winter.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#144
post #63

Can anyone figure out why it's so expensive? Here's a fancier-looking 26" bicycle on walmart.com for $79.97 - $249.00. [1] [1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadmaster-Granite-Peak-Men-s-...

I grew up with a slew of craptastic second hand, thrift store and K-Mart level bikes since it was all we could afford (and as I grew, the bikes grew). We used to beat the living snot out of those bikes and I don't remember any of them costing more than $150 new and they either never broke or were easy to repair. I would expect to pay no more than around $300 for a similar quality of bike these days. The last time I w…

I find that most US bike shops fall into two categories - either a general bike shop with a lot of models, or the racing/road oriented that focus on carbon fiber, racing etc.

If you want a general around town bike, I usually recommend the Trek FX series or Giant Escape hybrids. They're a light aluminium, but sturdy, use standard, durable, entry level components, have wider 700c tires good for handling potholes and curbs, mounts for racks - and worlds better ride quality then your run of the mill department store bike.

They're also common enough that you can find them used for under $300, or new starting around $380 or so. Models climb in price as they start adding higher level components but the entry level is usually good enough.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#145
post #134

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

I have question for you. Before my actual bike, I had a mountain bike for something around 15years. I never changed or did anything to the chain. It was perfect. Now I bought a new one. After 2 years I went to the shop to have it checked. They had to change the chain. When I told them my story with the old bike they told me: "that's how it is today. Chains are not what they were". I'm still in disbelieve. Can you con…

For mountain bikes and race bikes, this might actually be true. I used to have an MTB with stainless steel sprockets. Never needed to change them. Nowadays, they are mostly aluminium, I think. Furthermore newer bikes have more gears typically. The rear cassette used to be 7 speed, now 10 or 11 is not uncommon. This means narrower chains. Also chain may be lighter now, especially the high-end ones.

Lighter bikes are definitely more fun to ride, but probably at some cost....

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc. But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (a…

The difference is that cheap Dutch bikes are super simple: no gears and a coaster brake. The Walmart bikes aren't. They've often got 21 speeds, shocks, etc etc, all of which is pure crap and fails after minimal use. There's also the infrastructure to consider. If your bike fails in NL, you curse and coast to a stop on the bikeway. If it fails in the US, you may be in the middle of trying to cross a 6 lane road with n…

In addition to this, don't ignore survivor bias. It is amazing how so many things are ignored if they are normalized.

An easy example, right on red. Statistically, this has been shown to be dangerous. Chance of convincing people of this... Pretty much nil.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bicycle has a stainless steel self lubricating chain but I know where you're coming from. lots of people are put off by the idea of maintenance of their not very often ridden bicycle. They will still be disappointed when they get this one out of the garage next summer to find the tyres are flat and splitting.

Do tires exist that don't have these problems? Perhaps something made of a hard foam that doesn't deteriorate while stored?

I've found that keeping tires out of the sun makes the biggest difference. If kept out of the sun, bike tires can last a long time. One time I bought a bunch at the same time, and over the years I've regularly gotten one or two out of storage and found them satisfactory.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#148
post #82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a rear brake for two reasons. One is redundancy: if the front brake fails, you want another option, even if it's not quite as good. The other is spreading the braking heat over twice as much surface area on long fast descents. (Some tandems have a third brake for that reason.)

The redundancy point is true. The tandem drum brakes are less to do about heat dissipation than stopping your hands cramp up on a long descent. Often you just actuate the rear drum to provide constant drag on a descent.

For anyone interested, specialist tandem outfitters used to shave off the heat dissipation fins on old-style Arai drum brakes. The point of said brakes was not to dissipate heat, but to stop the tandem. It is true that very old tandems with rim brakes had heat-dissipation problems.

http://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cycling/52661-shaving-arai-...

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#149
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belt driven bikes have actually been around for quite a while. They aren't nearly as common as chained bikes but are generally less greasy/dirty. They are also usually good for people who don't do a ton of bike maintenance because (unlike a chain) a belt will never rust.

My bicycle has a stainless steel self lubricating chain but I know where you're coming from. lots of people are put off by the idea of maintenance of their not very often ridden bicycle. They will still be disappointed when they get this one out of the garage next summer to find the tyres are flat and splitting.

Why would a bike in storage deteriorate that much more quickly than one in use? You do need to store the tires inflated, but I use one set of tires for years, and I keep the bike outdoors in all weather and use it daily.

I do get the impression bike tires have gotten better over the years, because I don't remember tires being that robust in my childhood (but, well, memory and all...).

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#150

Can anyone figure out why it's so expensive? Here's a fancier-looking 26" bicycle on walmart.com for $79.97 - $249.00. [1] [1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Roadmaster-Granite-Peak-Men-s-...

Walmart and other big-box store bicycles are infamous in the cycling community for their poor quality and assembly, often to the point of being completely unsafe to ride at any speed (Nader reference intended). They often use the cheapest high-tensile steel they can find, off-brand rims, mix-and-match groupsets, low-quality brakes, and so forth. The bike you linked exemplifies that - mixed Shimano/SRAM components and…

Relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMnk_eCDQU
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