Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA • Hacker News Board

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#121

Post by curveship » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #88

woodruffw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart and other big-box store bicycles are infamous in the cycling community for their poor quality and assembly, often to the point of being completely unsafe to ride at any speed (Nader reference intended). They often use the cheapest high-tensile steel they can find, off-brand rims, mix-and-match groupsets, low-quality brakes, and so forth. The bike you linked exemplifies that - mixed Shimano/SRAM components and…

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc. But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (a…

The difference is that cheap Dutch bikes are super simple: no gears and a coaster brake. The Walmart bikes aren't. They've often got 21 speeds, shocks, etc etc, all of which is pure crap and fails after minimal use.

There's also the infrastructure to consider. If your bike fails in NL, you curse and coast to a stop on the bikeway. If it fails in the US, you may be in the middle of trying to cross a 6 lane road with no bike infrastructure whatsoever, putting your life in danger. I rode a crappy bike in NL (3 month stay in Rotterdam), but I wouldn't want to ride that same bike here in the US.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#122

Post by Eric_WVGG » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

harlanlewis wrote: post #111

owenversteeg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc. But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (a…

I've ridden for years with the Dutch mindset - I kept a '60s steel roadbike rolling with a bent frame after a car hit it while locked on the sidewalk (ugh). Frankenbikes can be great, and the performance limitations give them some personality, especially if you're already a comfortable cyclist and understand (or implemented) the quirks. But there's a big difference between the 'keep it rolling' mindset and dealing wi…

Also those shitty American bikes are designed to look like extreme speedsters. Nobody would get on a Dutch bike and expect to do more than hobble around the countryside or neighborhood and show off your new elbow patches.

Folks get on those Walmart deathtraps and they explode on an off-road boulder or disintegrate while someone speeds around the wheels of a dump truck.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#123

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #107

thrownblown wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reliance on a single coaster brake is dangerous. When a coaster brake fails, it can fail in two ways that are both very dangerous: full lock-up or full brake failure. They also have the tendency to catch at strange points in the pedal movement, like the vertical noon/6 position, which are difficult to establish the needed force to slow the bike. I have a Shimano Nexus 3 speed with a coaster (and hand brakes) that is…

Haven't had a coaster brake since the Schwinn Typhoon I had as a kid in the 1970s but the coaster brake was flawless. I think it was Bendix. Never failed to engage and was very controllable. Of course Schwinn today is not the same as they were then.

Went bankrupt in 1992, Pacific Bicycle bought the brand. So still a bike in name only

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#124

Post by owenversteeg » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

shortsightedsid wrote: post #109

owenversteeg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc. But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (a…

I'm in Amsterdam right now as well. > Brakes don't work? Here, put this duct tape on the brake pads, now they work. That's something which I have not seen. Not duct tape but brakes. I must be one of the few who don't have coaster brakes. Then again, expats don't really count. > Somewhat uniquely, American bike enthusiasts are insane about safety. "You could DIE with an improperly maintained bike!", "Not wearing a hel…

I find the bikes in Amsterdam are actually somewhat well maintained compared to the rest of the country. I live in Delft, a town with 25,000 students of a population of 95,000. Here, the bike combinations are particularly creative, which I really enjoy.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#125

Post by tzakrajs » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

johnny99 wrote: post #119

I used to be a bike mechanic, and have gotten to work 90% by bicycle for the past two decades, so I'll take a stab at some of the questions: - Belt drives are great. They're sturdier than chains, cleaner, and something I love, quieter. The angle of the belt doesn't change, the way a chain does, which means you can add a chain guard, as this bike does. Which keeps it yet cleaner. You can ride to work without worrying…

My belt driven Scott Sub 10 slips teeth under really high torque. I dont know if this is typical of all belt driven, but they seem less robust under torque genrally.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#126

Post by dashundchen » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #88

woodruffw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart and other big-box store bicycles are infamous in the cycling community for their poor quality and assembly, often to the point of being completely unsafe to ride at any speed (Nader reference intended). They often use the cheapest high-tensile steel they can find, off-brand rims, mix-and-match groupsets, low-quality brakes, and so forth. The bike you linked exemplifies that - mixed Shimano/SRAM components and…

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc. But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (a…

As an American who almost exclusively bikes for transportation, I think it comes down to a difference in cycling conditions.

Most people I know grew up riding ~$100 Walmart bikes, just as described - steel, heavy, poorly assembled and usually the wrong size.

It's quite harrowing to be riding a slow and breakdown-prone bike on 65kph auto-centric roads, when your chain falls off or brakes fail.

If there was more segregated cycling infrastructure and denser cities, I think it would be much different.

Adding in the fact that most people I know don't know how to change a tire, much less fix or maintain a bike, I'm not surprised they are turned off of cycling entirely by the time they become adults.

After riding department store bikes most of my life, I bought a entry level aluminium hybrid bike with quality components for $400 new (vs ~$200 for a department store steel bike). It was life changing to be able to be able to accelerate and maneuver in traffic, and made cycling much more attractive. I could also ride long distances without worrying about breaking down - and if I do, the parts are standard and I can fix it myself.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#127

Post by slau » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #78

Unman wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Front brake will flip you over in an instant, I know because I've done it, even at slow speeds That's because you simply do not know how to ride a bicycle. In such a situation you need to get your weight back behind the saddle and modulate the application of the brake. O.P. is one hundred percent correct that you do not need a rear brake -- and I speak as someone that rode for several years in without one including…

I "simply don't know how to ride a bicycle?" That's a big assumption you're making there, buddy. I don't know how your particular weight is distributed on your particular bicycle or what, but you're spreading dangerously wrong ideas. If you're going downhill and a child runs out in the street from between cars and you need to stop, and you're a normal person on a normal bike, you need a rear brake, end of story. If y…

Long time cyclist and motorbiker here.

If you're going down a hill and you need to do an emergency stop, the back wheel won't do you any good. The rule of thumb I was taught was that the back wheel will only provide 1G of deceleration, under ideal circumstances. If the road is wet, or there are leaves, assume less.

If anything, the rear brake can be used to slightly pump up the front fork, which allows the front wheel to find its own way through mud/leaves/snow. Basically, apply a touch of rear brake when you go through a slippery curve, squeeze the frame between your thighs, and let the bike find its own path.

If you take into account that during braking, and even more so during an emergency brake, all the inertial weight lies on the front wheel, it makes a lot of sense that the rear brake is so useless.

In France, bikers call their passengers "SDS," which stands for "sac de sable" (sandbag). Very useful to increase grip of the back wheel when accelerating strongly. Not when braking.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#128

Post by woodruffw » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 6:00 PM UTC

shortsightedsid wrote: post #109

owenversteeg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy would you love the Netherlands. Here, almost everyone rides a used bike that's had many owners, each of which changed it in some "improper" way. Wheels the wrong size for the bike, duct tape holding the bike together, half of the spokes broken, etc., etc. But you know what? That's what the whole country uses for transportation, every day, and it works fine. It turns out that, in your day-to-day usage of a bike (a…

I'm in Amsterdam right now as well. > Brakes don't work? Here, put this duct tape on the brake pads, now they work. That's something which I have not seen. Not duct tape but brakes. I must be one of the few who don't have coaster brakes. Then again, expats don't really count. > Somewhat uniquely, American bike enthusiasts are insane about safety. "You could DIE with an improperly maintained bike!", "Not wearing a hel…

> I can't imagine anywhere in the US having Canals and no guard rails; Jaywalking like you born to; Firecrackers in the middle of street for NYE.

Just speaking from my experience growing up in NYC: I've seen and done all of these things. Of course, that's definitely not the average American experience.

I think a large part of the US's penchant for regulating cycling comes from a tendency to look at bicycles as a toy, rather than a tool. When we think of cycling foremost as a diversion for children, we're less likely to stress the importance of learning to maintain one's own bike and are more likely to stress replace-ability and a misguided sense of safety ("it's just a toy, we'll get you another one!").

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#129

Post by Unman » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 6:00 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #103

Unman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an assumption. You have now repeatedly asserted that you do not know how to.

Since you seem to be unable to see that the issue has not been "decided" as you think it is, especially as there are different bicycle types and different body types, I'll leave these quotes here from [1] and [2] so that other people can be safely warned: "You should always apply the rear brake, and slightly in advance of the front brake, so that a slight skid at the rear will warn you if you get close to the hazard…

None of those quotes demonstrate anything other than the simple point that someone who has experience in riding a bicycle knows to get their weight back and low so that (per your own quote) it is _nearly impossible_ even on steep hills to endo.

It would be refreshing if you were able to demonstrate a capacity for admitting that perhaps you have something to learn. I would advise taking a mountain bike class and coupling it with something like the U.K.'s Bikeability or the U.S.A.'s League of American Bicyclists equivalent.

I fear, instead, that you will spend your time hectoring internet strangers about the dangers of bicycle riding based on your own incapacities and incapabilities.

Good luck.

Re: Flat Pack Chainless Bicycle from IKEA

#130

Post by giardini » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

thrownblown wrote: post #89

dripton wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the combination of a coaster brake and a front brake on some kids' bikes. I believe the thinking is that a coaster brake is friendly to novices, those with weak hands, and those who knock their front brake out of adjustment and don't know how to fix it. While a front brake gives riders who can actually get above 12 mph some actual stopping power for safety.

Reliance on a single coaster brake is dangerous. When a coaster brake fails, it can fail in two ways that are both very dangerous: full lock-up or full brake failure. They also have the tendency to catch at strange points in the pedal movement, like the vertical noon/6 position, which are difficult to establish the needed force to slow the bike. I have a Shimano Nexus 3 speed with a coaster (and hand brakes) that is…

You should get your coaster brake fixed, since it is apparently dangerous for you.

I have never had a coaster brake failure. Nor have I experienced a problem with engaging the coaster brake as you describe. I have always found the single coaster brake to be more than adequate and to be more reliable than any (set of) handbrake(s). I like the fact that I can skid the rear tire if I apply enough force. I live in a non-hilly area, so YMMV.