“Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse • Hacker News Board

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#111

Post by jlebar » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 4:51 AM UTC

merkp wrote: post #107

crazy1van wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we accept these conditions as the norm What conditions are you referring to? The ability to work when you want for as long as you want? The ability to take an otherwise idle asset like your car or your house and make extra money with it? Anecdotally, I've taken dozens of Uber rides and never once heard the driver complain about Uber. I have, however, heard many drivers complain about proposed legislation that wi…

Then you're not a lawyer. Tell an Uber driver that you're a lawyer, and you're nearly guaranteed a conversation about their rights, and ability to sue Uber. This isn't true for all sharing economy companies, but it's true for Uber. They might not complain if all they think it'll do is ding their star rating, but many of them are very upset with Uber. Most of these folks feel trapped by what they perceive to be an abu…

So complain about Uber. There's lots to complain about, for sure. But don't make it about the "serfdom economy" or tech in general.

Seriously, we're sitting here on our pocket supercomputers [1] using wireless city-wide broadband to complain about how tech doesn't make anyone's lives better.

[1] Ownership of which largely transcends class, at least in the USA, which is amazingly wonderful and is a consequence of the capitalist system TFA's author seems to hate so much.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#112

Post by kordless » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:02 AM UTC

_andromeda_ wrote: post #110

>This unending hamster wheel of capitalism and technology is driving us all to the brink of insanity Things have gotten so much better over the years because of capitalism and more so because of technology. Without capitalism and technology, I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead. There'd be no antibiotics, sufficient food production, infrastructure to move pro…

> I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead.

This is an illogical statement which rationalizes utilizing technology and capitalism to achieve greater numbers of instances of people. If we didn't have the resources/medicine/tech to support the 7.5B people here, then a lot of us wouldn't have been born. Jokes or not, if you aren't born, you can't die. ;) I suppose you are technically dead if you are never born, but nobody cares if they aren't ever born (or we can't tell, which is the same thing).

I do acknowledge people don't want to suffer greatly and causing suffering either passively or actively in others is wrong. Technology reminds me of sugar in the days of low fat diets. Yes, technology can help reduce suffering, but at what cost does it do that and is it worth it in the long run?

I could rationalize that the supreme pinnacle of human civilization will be perfect capitalism and technology that is beyond comprehension, enabling quadrillions of us to live here in this solar system and in good harmony with each other. Who's to say if more people/entities aren't a good thing why aren't there more of us? Surely not me!

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#113

Post by tmuir » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:17 AM UTC

_andromeda_ wrote: post #110

>This unending hamster wheel of capitalism and technology is driving us all to the brink of insanity Things have gotten so much better over the years because of capitalism and more so because of technology. Without capitalism and technology, I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead. There'd be no antibiotics, sufficient food production, infrastructure to move pro…

Here's a counter argument to all of your points:

Superbugs have evolved to be resistant to all antibiotics.

Industrial scale food production is a huge strain on the environment, and in many cases pretty terrible conditions for the animals.

Capitalism exploits consumers' ignorance through information asymmetry. Think of how many businesses would be destroyed if deceit of all kinds were outlawed, and everyone had the true power of a Google or Facebook to analyze exabytes of information for their own benefit.

Much of technology is only economically viable as means of advertising and surveillance.

I'm a gainfully employed engineer who values western medicine, spends way too much time on the internet, and doesn't want to see billions of people die. However, to claim that capitalism and technology don't have unintended consequences is intellectually dishonest.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#114

Post by _andromeda_ » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:17 AM UTC

kordless wrote: post #112

_andromeda_ wrote: post #110

>This unending hamster wheel of capitalism and technology is driving us all to the brink of insanity Things have gotten so much better over the years because of capitalism and more so because of technology. Without capitalism and technology, I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead. There'd be no antibiotics, sufficient food production, infrastructure to move pro…

> I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead. This is an illogical statement which rationalizes utilizing technology and capitalism to achieve greater numbers of instances of people. If we didn't have the resources/medicine/tech to support the 7.5B people here, then a lot of us wouldn't have been born. Jokes or not, if you aren't born, you can't die. ;) I suppose y…

> If we didn't have the resources/medicine/tech to support the 7.5B

The obvious implication from my statement is that if you took it away right now... You and I both know what I mean.

Edit: Didn't mean to be rude, just got a tad frustrated

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#115

Post by strken » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:18 AM UTC

tmuir wrote: post #104

strken wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The point is that most people as the supplier aren't doing Uber, AirBnB, etc because they like it. They're doing it because they don't have any other good alternatives. How do you know this? The last five uber drivers I've had have been - a bloke on the way home from the gym - the owner of a small accountancy firm, also on the way home - an IT student from China who talked about PHP with me - a Korean migrant who re…

1. 5 day old account 2. Wide array of feel-good details to check lots of boxes 3. Completely anecdotal and therefore unverifiable 4. Facebook-level knowledge of people you likely spent 10 minutes with 5. Glowing review of Uber Isn't Fear Uncertainty and Doubt great?

2. When you ask a stranger about themselves, they put their best foot forward. People are pretty varied.

3. My experience has been that uber drivers in my city work part time for supplementary income. This is a verifiable assertion, but I don't have the means to carry out that verification. However, the assertion that I was responding to has no verification either. Plus, it probably varies from city to city and country to country

5. There are a lot of reasons why Uber is awful, from monopolistic bullying of governments, to not letting drivers set prices, to exposing drivers to market forces at an unprecedented level, but the drivers I've talked to have nearly all worked part time and seemed pretty happy to do so.

I'm not in sales, I don't work for Uber, and that's all I'll say about the personal stuff.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#116

Post by _andromeda_ » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:20 AM UTC

tmuir wrote: post #113

_andromeda_ wrote: post #110

>This unending hamster wheel of capitalism and technology is driving us all to the brink of insanity Things have gotten so much better over the years because of capitalism and more so because of technology. Without capitalism and technology, I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead. There'd be no antibiotics, sufficient food production, infrastructure to move pro…

Here's a counter argument to all of your points: Superbugs have evolved to be resistant to all antibiotics. Industrial scale food production is a huge strain on the environment, and in many cases pretty terrible conditions for the animals. Capitalism exploits consumers' ignorance through information asymmetry. Think of how many businesses would be destroyed if deceit of all kinds were outlawed, and everyone had the t…

>capitalism and technology don't have unintended consequences is intellectually dishonest

Well argued. I respect that line of thought but I don't think I'm being 'intellectually dishonest'.

The benefits of technology and capitalism greatly outweigh any negative consequences. It is almost trivial, negligible.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#117

Post by NovaS1X » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:24 AM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #2

Most of the "mom-tech" could also be described as "nobility-tech", which allows the old services for the nobility to be bought at a fee. Anyway... > Mommy used to clean my room. A: Handy. > Mommy used to do my laundry. A: Flycleaners. You'd be surprised how desirable this is when you have Significant Life Issues and you don't want your home to be a disaster. While the "side hustle" being mandatory is not a good place…

Really? You have Significant Life Issues and you can't even manage to clean up your house or cook a meal? Do you really think you can organize your life when you can't even manage to organize your home or your own sustenance?

What a joke. You don't need time, you need perspective.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#118

Post by adrienne » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:38 AM UTC

_andromeda_ wrote: post #110

>This unending hamster wheel of capitalism and technology is driving us all to the brink of insanity Things have gotten so much better over the years because of capitalism and more so because of technology. Without capitalism and technology, I dare say that majority of the 7 billion of us who are alive now would be dead. No jokes. Dead. There'd be no antibiotics, sufficient food production, infrastructure to move pro…

You do know that "technology" and "capitalism" are not synonyms, right? And that a whole lot of technological advances have occurred outside of a capitalist context? It serves the interests of the powerful to pretend like we have to have both, but it's just not true.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#119

Post by littledude » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:38 AM UTC

iamdave wrote: post #65

The take-away about Seamless I overheard in real time in a frightening way. Sitting in the smoking area, waiting for a coworker to come grab me for work, two of my neighbors were talking about how they actively avoided becoming friends with other neighbors, they just didn't want that kind of connection and preferred that neighbors just stayed in their lane as people who ostensibly share a dwelling in the same high-ri…

I think this tends to happen once density of the place people live goes above a certain threshold. People don't have to rely on their neighbours because they know so many people (friends/family/coworkers) close by they can contact if they need help with anything.

On the flip side your neigbours are most likely potential see you arguing with a partner, coming home drunk late at night, going out after calling in sick etc. See things that tarnish your reputation, more downside than upside if you find out you have connections and potential gossip.

Re: “Side Hustle” as a Sign of the Apocalypse

#120

Post by knieveltech » Sun, Jan 15, 2017, 5:42 AM UTC

jlebar wrote: post #109

bsder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like The point isn't preventing YOU , the consumer, from doing this. The point is that most people as the supplier aren't doing Uber, AirBnB, etc because they like it. They're doing it because they don't have any other good alternatives. Most of the people on the supply side of the serfdom economy are gaining very little benefit. This is a real problem.

> The point is that most people as the supplier aren't doing Uber, AirBnB, etc because they like it. They're doing it because they don't have any other good alternatives. Well, sure. Why is it the fault of Uber/AirBnB/Seamless/TaskRabbit/DishDash/Handy/whatever that they don't have better alternatives? And moreover, how exactly would these people's lives be better if they couldn't work for Uber etc.? Aren't they choo…

I think the point that the author was trying to make was SV/startup/tech company bulshytt all touts technology* as equating to progress, and progress equalling some kind of unambiguous improvement to individual quality of life or society as a whole. This claim is open to critique given the exploitative nature of some/most/all sharing economy services, the frequently pointless and often time consuming nature of apps, etc.

The idea here is if technology was in fact improving the economy, society, or the world the individuals who are stuck working 2nd and 3rd jobs would have other options available, especially in light of how many jobs/career tracks/industries software has eaten in the last 20 years.

* poorly defined term in this context