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Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

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Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#121

Post by Mikeb85 »

MicroBerto wrote: post #114
Mikeb85 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it because we're all making those sweet 1% salaries in tech? Probably. People need to realise it's not the normal state of affairs, nor will it last forever. Where I live, everyone was making 6 figure salaries out of school working for oil companies. Now unemployment is over 10%, and every single person my age who worked for an oil company was laid off, most are back to being bartenders and servers with no futur…

Given the energy policies our President is going to be taking, I'm willing to bet your friends in oil will be employed within two years. We'll see, but there's quite a bit of excitement with my chemical engineering friends.

I'm not so optimistic. I live in Alberta, Canada, and we have a few things going against us. For one, not much conventional oil. The cost of extracting oil from bitumen is still very high. Second, most of the lost jobs have been white collar jobs in Calgary (2016 was far worse than 2015, and 2017 is looking dismal). Oil companies have packed up and left town altogether. They're not coming back, because why would they? They're all massive multinationals, wound down operations, and can administer whatever activities they engage in from their offices abroad. So in the case of our city, a slight oil 'comeback' won't help us. Trump's policies won't help us. Even though oil prices have stabilised and drilling is resuming in many places, companies are still laying people off here and commercial vacancy is still increasing.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#122

Post by Rovanion »

MicroBerto wrote: post #115
speeder wrote: post #12

Note that even in countries where the absolute amount of money is better, the stuff on this article still applies. I am from Brazil, and many boomers told me when I was young how awesome I was to be young, because I was living in a golden age where I didn't had to walk uphill both ways to school, could have computer, and whatnot. But it is me that envy them now, I am 29, have zero income, lots of debt, and own no ass…

> But it is me that envy them now, I am 29, have zero income, lots of debt, and own no assets (not even a bicycle). I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who write such essays. You are clearly a talented writer. Are you unable to start some kind of a business and hustle for 14 hours a day?? Why do you have time to be here and not there?

Oh yes, the good old american "Why don't you pull yourself up by the bootstraps?"

Do you honestly think this person hasn't tried. And do you honestly believe that just because he spends his evenings on HN he's not a stand up person?

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#123

Post by ArkyBeagle »

chc wrote: post #34
ElectronCharge wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only because of bad parenting really. Discuss...

Alternatively, it could be because of increasing lifespans and ballooning educational requirements for the average job.

It's because the barrier to entry into employment rises because the overall productive sector is - despite all the horror stories - quite effective at producing. They don't really need your help.

My father, born in 1930, had to perform manual labor on farms because that was how stuff got produced. There was no barrier to entry. He then worked until retirement on mechanical phone switches, which are now beyond obsolete.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#124

Post by MicroBerto »

Rovanion wrote: post #122
MicroBerto wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it is me that envy them now, I am 29, have zero income, lots of debt, and own no assets (not even a bicycle). I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who write such essays. You are clearly a talented writer. Are you unable to start some kind of a business and hustle for 14 hours a day?? Why do you have time to be here and not there?

Oh yes, the good old american "Why don't you pull yourself up by the bootstraps?" Do you honestly think this person hasn't tried. And do you honestly believe that just because he spends his evenings on HN he's not a stand up person?

When did I ever imply those things?

I will bluntly state that if you have the kind of writing talent that OP displayed, and you cannot afford a bicycle, you are simply not applying yourself.

That level of skill alone could easily net you $1500/month+ on various writing services (at an extremely conservative 2000 words/day * $0.03/word * 20 days/month). Nobody said it'd be fun or easy, but hey, you'd at least have a bicycle after you got paid.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#125

Post by MicroBerto »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #121
MicroBerto wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the energy policies our President is going to be taking, I'm willing to bet your friends in oil will be employed within two years. We'll see, but there's quite a bit of excitement with my chemical engineering friends.

I'm not so optimistic. I live in Alberta, Canada, and we have a few things going against us. For one, not much conventional oil. The cost of extracting oil from bitumen is still very high. Second, most of the lost jobs have been white collar jobs in Calgary (2016 was far worse than 2015, and 2017 is looking dismal). Oil companies have packed up and left town altogether. They're not coming back, because why would they…

Ahhh, my bad, I didn't dig enough to see that you were Canadian. If Trump's policies "work" with respect to employment, you may certainly see similar dominos fall. TBD of course.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#126

Post by cookiecaper »

jacobolus wrote: post #107
cookiecaper wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Our whole economy has been restructured around fat cats finding ways to eek people out of more and more. Without taking a step back, it's hard to realize just how pervasive that's become. I don't attribute this as much to greater discipline by older generations as to cultural and economic differences that made a simpler, more sustainable life the default course. There are a lot of things about life…

Most people throughout the history of agricultural societies have been landless peasants working as serfs for the local lord. The utopian dream of the self-sufficient yeoman farmer has mostly been a rare exceptional case.

I'm neither an anthropologist nor a historian so my weak grasp on the details is probably going to get me in trouble if I get much deeper into this argument.

I'll just say that personally, I feel that such sentiment is primarily a construction by the same people who are trying to sell us the need for every adult couple to get a new mortgage, to have six figures on loan for education, to pay $75k+ for new cars every 6 years, and so on. I believe they see the citizenry as an asset that should be exploited to bear interest throughout its working life, and longer if possible. This effectively makes the costs of all durable goods 2x-3x more expensive than the already-high sticker price.

Obviously I don't deny that indeed there have been fiefdoms, slaveholders, and other undesirable living conditions, and I'm not advocating for that type of thing. However, I don't think the sentiment that it was nearly-universal is anywhere near correct, nor do I think that a lot of people in a more traditional culture would view their situation with the same suspicion or contempt that the modern Westerner would.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#127

Post by cookiecaper »

Jtsummers wrote: post #103
cookiecaper wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents want nothing more than a bright and stable future for their posterity. They vote in accordance with policy that they believe will achieve those ends.

In a strictly rational world, yes. But many people vote without thinking about what improves things for the future, but what makes things better for them now. Or they vote on emotional or moral grounds without considering the actual economic and societal costs.

Parents have dedicated their lives to providing a good future for their children. They absolutely are thinking about the impact this will have on the younger generations, because tarnishing those generations, at least those expected within 100 years of the voter's death, tarnishes themselves and everything they've worked for -- namely, providing a good future for their posterity.

Parent-and-child identity are not separated. The success of the child is the success of the parent, within basic parameters.

It's very naive to assume that an overriding self-interest prevents a parent from tending to their child's needs.

You may disagree with your elders on a subject, which is fine, but it's unfair to characterize them as selfish or unthinking just because you disagree with their perspective on what will benefit their children. (Children frequently do disagree with their parents, and are usually proven wrong.)

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#128

Post by Mikeb85 »

MicroBerto wrote: post #125
Mikeb85 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so optimistic. I live in Alberta, Canada, and we have a few things going against us. For one, not much conventional oil. The cost of extracting oil from bitumen is still very high. Second, most of the lost jobs have been white collar jobs in Calgary (2016 was far worse than 2015, and 2017 is looking dismal). Oil companies have packed up and left town altogether. They're not coming back, because why would they…

Ahhh, my bad, I didn't dig enough to see that you were Canadian. If Trump's policies "work" with respect to employment, you may certainly see similar dominos fall. TBD of course.

No worries. As far as Trump's policies go, I think they'll work well enough domestically. Not too long ago, tariffs and deregulation were fairly orthodox economic policies.

And his pro-pipeline stance will be good for Canada, though for Alberta macro issues affect us more than any policy issues.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#129

Post by nunez »

Jtsummers wrote: post #102
nunez wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Herein lies the rub: carrying debt to maximize life now can potentially destroy your future, but the alternative is minimizing life now to improve your potential (and non-guaranteed) future later. It would be a real shame to avoid living the life you want now in hopes of an awesome future, only for the future to hand you a really shitty hand (I.e. Medical bills vaporizing all of your wealth) I think finding balance i…

> carrying debt to maximize life now can potentially destroy your future, but the alternative is minimizing life now to improve your potential (and non-guaranteed) future later. Define maximize and minimize. Is a life lived "to the fullest" worth it, when you find yourself frequently fighting off panic attacks as you realize you have to work until you die? Is a life spent maxing out a couple retirement accounts (IRA,…

I can tell we are probably going to agree to disagree here, but yes, doing all of those things sucks for me.

Making my own food takes time that I could spend doing something else. I also hate cooking, so it sucks even more. I did find cheap frozen food that's good, easy to track and fits my diet, so there's that.

I fly every week for work. Sitting in cheap airline seats for more than three hours is torture in my book. I do realize that some care less about this than others, but getting comfy seats, a decent meal and drinks while being in an enclosed metal tube a mile high really does make a difference for me.

Modest hotels are usually okay, but we need to define "modest" here. If "modest" == hostel or motel, then I'm out. I've done both of those things. I'm good. I don't need the Ritz but a clean, quiet and private room, a comfy bed and security are absolutes for me and motels and hostels vary wildly on having these things.

I would much much rather find ways of maximizing my income. That's actually easier, IMO.

Working "until you die" isn't a bad thing in my book. I really enjoy my work and have for years. I would like financial independence so I can choose what and with whom I'd like to work on and with, but I still see myself working at 60-65 to some capacity in this field, possibly longer.

Example: Being a consultant is really nice if you can find work and enjoy traveling. People pay a lot for your knowledge and they get to benefit from it. I also like the sales aspect of it. I also also like free dinners and drinks!

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#130

Post by Jtsummers »

cookiecaper wrote: post #127
Jtsummers wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a strictly rational world, yes. But many people vote without thinking about what improves things for the future, but what makes things better for them now. Or they vote on emotional or moral grounds without considering the actual economic and societal costs.

Parents have dedicated their lives to providing a good future for their children. They absolutely are thinking about the impact this will have on the younger generations, because tarnishing those generations, at least those expected within 100 years of the voter's death, tarnishes themselves and everything they've worked for -- namely, providing a good future for their posterity. Parent-and-child identity are not sep…

> It's very naive to assume that an overriding self-interest prevents a parent from tending to their child's needs.

Where is this sentiment in my post? I'm saying, people aren't rational. They don't think in a deliberate, utopian fashion like your first paragraph suggests in all their thinking. We, as a species, tend to be shortsighted. And parents aren't that much better just by being parents. They still vote based on emotional and moral perspectives that end up hurting their children and future generations, though that's not their intent. Consider NC and their "bathroom bill" crap that has hurt the state's economy. Or preventing municipal broadband. Or cutting teacher pay and benefits and forcing teachers to quit or leave the state to make a decent living. Maybe it seemed like a good idea at the time, but they've fucked over every K-12 student and many others.

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