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Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

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Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#21

Post by elihu »

I think one of the main problems with the H1B visa program is that foreign workers are kept too long in a state of precarious residency.

I work for a tech behemoth that imports an enormous workforce from overseas. My overall impression of my foreign colleagues is that they are very competent, hardworking people and the United States is better off for having them here. However, I'm uncomfortable with the kind of leverage my employer has over them. If my boss asked me to work 60 hour weeks or work through the weekends or something, I'm able to say "no" because if they fire me, it's not really that big of a deal. I'll just go work for someone else. I'm not going to get kicked out of the country. For the H1B holders, it's a different story.

Even if the employer never deliberately exploits that situation (and I have no reason to believe that my employer does), there's still that implicit threat in the background.

So, I think we shouldn't leave H1B visas in limbo for extended periods of time. If they've been here for a year or more, they should be able to quit their jobs if they want to without repercussions.

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#22

Post by shawnee_ »

untog wrote: post #5

It's unfortunate that the title doesn't match the article content here. The article correctly identifies that nearly half of H1B don't go to Silicon Valley, they go to the outsourcing firms that hire foreign workers (usually Indian) and hold them as indentured servants (for a decade or more before they can get a green card) and hire them out to US companies as "consultants". It's a total scam, and it needs to be shut…

The fairly recent landmark decision in Browning-Ferris[1] should take a few steps toward curbing the abuses of this practice. Not only for H1B workers, but also for many of the kinds of people that tend to get -- in this commenter's words -- "scammed" by agencies. The problem is many workers coming in know little to nothing about current US employment law.

If you are building or working on something that is going on the "asset" side of a company's balance sheet, you are probably in a joint employer situation. And if you are in a joint employer situation, you need to be loud and clear about disparities. Which obviously exist when the middleman temp/outsource agency is shaving 35, 40, 50, X percent of your wages, benefits, whatever.

The theory here is that the company that was trying to save a few bucks by hiring "cheap" foreign help now has to account for the liabilities of being a joint employer: now legally defined to include the welfare of any workers being treated like slave labor by the firms they hire. So... maybe it's not really "cheaper" after all.

Makes a lot of sense.

[1] http://www.acc.com/legalresources/quickcounsel/joint-employe...

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#23

Post by baytrailcat »

You cannot, as a culture, simultaneously underplay the importance of science and math education (nerds!!!) and complain when immigrants come in to occupy the high tech jobs. There is a big outrage about lack of high-paying jobs, yet there is rampant anti-intellectualism and discouragement of critical and analytical thinking which is needed for those jobs.

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#24

Post by trustfundbaby »

elihu wrote: post #21

I think one of the main problems with the H1B visa program is that foreign workers are kept too long in a state of precarious residency. I work for a tech behemoth that imports an enormous workforce from overseas. My overall impression of my foreign colleagues is that they are very competent, hardworking people and the United States is better off for having them here. However, I'm uncomfortable with the kind of lever…

> However, I'm uncomfortable with the kind of leverage my employer has over them. If my boss asked me to work 60 hour weeks or work through the weekends or something, I'm able to say "no" because if they fire me, it's not really that big of a deal. I'll just go work for someone else. I'm not going to get kicked out of the country. For the H1B holders, it's a different story.

Thank you for writing this. I was a H1B worker and this is absolutely exactly how it happens. What are you going to say? No? ... they'll just put you on a PIP and push out your green card application a few months or tell you they're re-evaluating things in light of your transgressions. Now what?

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#25

Post by untog »

zer00eyz wrote: post #11
untog wrote: post #5

It's unfortunate that the title doesn't match the article content here. The article correctly identifies that nearly half of H1B don't go to Silicon Valley, they go to the outsourcing firms that hire foreign workers (usually Indian) and hold them as indentured servants (for a decade or more before they can get a green card) and hire them out to US companies as "consultants". It's a total scam, and it needs to be shut…

I would rather see reform in the process of making HB1 candidates citizens. Its a group of people that want to be here and many want to stay but the process is exceedingly painful. HB1 should be a faster path to becoming a citizen not a longer one.

AFAIK H1B is not a longer path to becoming a citizen - it just allows you to apply for a green card alongside renewing your current visa status. The problem is that green cards are allocated according to country, and India has a huge backlog of a decade or more. Workers from other countries do not face this issue. I agree that it should be reformed, but I'm not optimistic.

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#26

Post by untog »

baytrailcat wrote: post #23

You cannot, as a culture, simultaneously underplay the importance of science and math education (nerds!!!) and complain when immigrants come in to occupy the high tech jobs. There is a big outrage about lack of high-paying jobs, yet there is rampant anti-intellectualism and discouragement of critical and analytical thinking which is needed for those jobs.

I actually don't think "nerds!!!" is much of a thing any more - much of our cultural output is based around comic books and fantasy stories, the likes of which were regarded as nerdy persuits when I was a teenager.

I think people are happy to describe science and math education as important, they're just not happy to pay for it. Decades of underinvestment in public education results in undereducated people, but no-one wants to actually deal with the issue.

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#28

Post by untog »

elihu wrote: post #21

I think one of the main problems with the H1B visa program is that foreign workers are kept too long in a state of precarious residency. I work for a tech behemoth that imports an enormous workforce from overseas. My overall impression of my foreign colleagues is that they are very competent, hardworking people and the United States is better off for having them here. However, I'm uncomfortable with the kind of lever…

> If they've been here for a year or more, they should be able to quit their jobs if they want to without repercussions.

To clarify: you absolutely can do that on an H1B. The problem is that you need to have a new job lined up to replace it, and that job needs to have gone through visa approval processes that can take up to three months (there is a grace period, I believe, of 30 days, soon to be extended to 60). This also costs the company money in legal fees, so people tend to get jobs with large corporations rather than startups, who are less willing to swallow the cost.

So, it's possible, just very irritating to do. And if you're also applying for a green card sponsored by your company then you have additional issues - you can get shunted back to step one when you change employers if you haven't already reached a certain stage.

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#29

Post by trustfundbaby »

untog wrote: post #25
zer00eyz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather see reform in the process of making HB1 candidates citizens. Its a group of people that want to be here and many want to stay but the process is exceedingly painful. HB1 should be a faster path to becoming a citizen not a longer one.

AFAIK H1B is not a longer path to becoming a citizen - it just allows you to apply for a green card alongside renewing your current visa status. The problem is that green cards are allocated according to country, and India has a huge backlog of a decade or more. Workers from other countries do not face this issue. I agree that it should be reformed, but I'm not optimistic.

Workers from other countries do not face this issue

--------------

That hasn't been correct until very recently to be very fair. It used to be a wait of years in the EB3 category, the lane most h1bs qualify for, and has only recently (2014 or so) shortened to a few months. And to clarify, this is just to get a green card.

it still takes 5 years after that green card to become a citizen.

Re: Don't Give Silicon Valley More H1B Visas

#30

Post by trustfundbaby »

gvd wrote: post #20

If companies are really in it because there is a shortage they should pay H1Bs the same wage. If not, limit H1Bs. I'm pretty sure Thiel will prevent this from happening

H1b salaries are on par if not higher with their peers with the huge exception of the outsourcing firms that grab a lot of the available H1B slots in the lottery. Those need to be shut down.
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